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Anyone happy living in new york?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Debates' started by dmmj, Jun 13, 2012.

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  1. terryo

    terryo Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    I agree with not smoking in a public place, like a restaurant, but someone having a cigarette on a park bench in the open air, should be OK. I don't smoke and don't like to inhale it while I'm eating, nor do I want my children to, but outside is their business. No one owns the air we breathe. In New York the very rich and the very poor live comfortably, but the middle class is getting robbed of not only their income, but now their rights. Neither rich nor poor.....are in a fast food place having a big glass of soda. But now we're getting into deep water politics here, which is something else.
  2. Carlotta84

    Carlotta84 New Member 5 Year Member

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    I might be a bit out of the choir but I am a scientist and this is my field.
    I guess the problem with sugary drinks and fatty food is not people becoming fat but the pathology that people can get: Diabetes and cardiovascular disease at first.
    Diabetes (type 2) is partly genetic and partly diet related. It is a long-term condition that can have serious health consequences including heart attack, stoke, kidney failure, blindness and limb amputation leading to a drastic decrease of life expectancy.
    Having saying that I think the best way to prevent diet related disease would be a correct information and education of the public on the consequences that a wrong diet can leads instead of prohibiting consumption of some food.
  3. Jacqui

    Jacqui Wanna be raiser of Lemon Drop tortoises Moderator 10 Year Member!

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    I agree.


    Is anybody else craving a big very cold sugary drink right now after reading all of this? I know I am and the funny thing is, I don't drink them any more. :D
  4. terryo

    terryo Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    My husband has type 2 Diabetes. His Father died from it, after loosing first a toe, the part of his leg, and then the rest of his leg. It was an awful thing to watch. My husband has taken courses at the hospital, seen nutritionists, and has a blood test every three months and a Dr. visit. He has a machine to check his blood every day, but never does. He is a research junkie on the net. The information is out there for anyone who wants it. If I'm not watching him he is sneaking ice cream, or I will find him at the donut shop, or he buys cake and hides it. He does the same thing his Father did. It has to do with will power. He has the education but has NO will power. But....that is his business...not the Governments. Next they will be telling us what books to read, or how many children we are allowed to have. The reason we live here is because we want to be free to live our lives the way we want to.
  5. Kerryann

    Kerryann Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    I am opposed to anyone regulating what you can do with your own body. I do think if you sign an agreement with your insurance company to participate in a healthy living plan, that is okay, because you agreed to it. I think incentivizing people to have proper nutrition through lower health care costs is not a violation of anyones rights. If you live healthier you reduce your risks in terms of health care costs.

    I used to be morbidly obese and I don't allow junk food in my home, but I would not force my beliefs down anyone's throats.
  6. GeoTerraTestudo

    GeoTerraTestudo Active Member 5 Year Member

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    Not the same thing, because selling sex (prostitution) is indeed illegal in most jurisdictions. As a libertarian, I agree with you that we should be free to do what we will with our own bodies, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. But does that apply here? Perhaps not.

    I am usually for leaving the market free, however sometimes regulation is justified. For example, deregulating the wheeling and dealing on Wall Street has, among other things, plunged the whole world into a recession for the past four years. If those cowboys had been regulated, we might not be in this mess now.

    Likewise, we keep educating people on how to eat healthy, but companies know which biochemical buttons make us more likely to gobble up fatty foods, sugary and acidic drinks, excessive amounts of meat, etc. Sounds like it is time for government to step in and protect the public good once more.

    It should be legal to eat and drink whatever you want. But selling junk food to others is tantamount to abusing them. It's illegal for me to punch people, sell meds without a prescription, or sell alcohol and cigarettes to minors. Why? Because these things can all hurt people. So why should I be allowed to sell junk food to someone, when it increases his odds of getting cavities and becoming obese, or of getting cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and in some cases even cancer?

    If people want to roll their own cigarettes, I have no objection. But to sell someone cancer in a box (cigarettes) is wrong. I think cigarettes should be regulated much more strongly than they are now. Likewise, it's wrong to sell someone heart attack in a box (junk food), so that should be outlawed, too. Only on a level playing field will companies in the free market finally be able to stop offering us what we crave, and start offering us what we actually need.
  7. terryo

    terryo Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    Then we might as well be turtles or tortoises. We regulate the hours they can spend outside for their protection, we give them the food we think is nourishing for them, restricting them from sugary foods or foods that aren't healthy. We soak them when we feel they need to hydrate, whether they want to sit in a tub or not, because it's good for them. If I want to smoke and end up dead, that's my business. If I want to have a big sugary drink and get obese and get cavities that's my business.....etc. I am a human being and I am free, not an animal to be regulated and told what to eat and drink.


    "I am usually for leaving the market free, however sometimes regulation is justified. For example, deregulating the wheeling and dealing on Wall Street has, among other things, plunged the whole world into a recession for the past four years. If those cowboys had been regulated, we might not be in this mess now."

    Another discussion completely.
  8. ascott

    ascott Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    This is a good statement all alone...

    This kinda makes it sound like if this were the case then every single person in the entire world should be big chunk o dunks...and that is not the case....and again, not a place that the government should be allowed to be stepped in....after all, the government allows so many things and those things are absolutely harmful (bottled water, gluten filled breads, ok to use pesticides/herbicides/fertilizers in foods designed for consumption as well as they contaminate the earth)...I do not see that their track record offers me any comfort that they know what they are doing....

    I am sorry, however, I believe that the reason you can not do these things is not because someone has a grave concern for the masses...but rather if you were to do that then someone is not going to get their cut...not going to continue the propaganda that "we are doing this for your own good"....when actually regulations are put in place as a result of huge scare tactics and horrific shock value advertisement....and the folks that do the advertisement and scare tactics do so because they gain a cut of profit...in addition to the folks getting profit...it perpetuates the cycle and then the next profitable target would be placed in motion...

    I mean really? If folks are dropping like flies from smoking, from drinking, from candy bars and cheeseburgers and if we are all idiots and can not push away from the table once in a while due to the government "allowing" these things to be sold....then why the hell is the population continue to grow....I mean really?

    If the media and the government decided to convince us all that they found a slow killing germ that lives in black dye that causes swelling, sores, infection and eventually amputation...and because of this they will be outlawing black dye...but that they will be increasing the use of red....it would not take long to convince the masses...stocks would go crazy for red dye and black would be dead in no time....and this would not even have to be true (as will so many other "for your own good" regulations) to occur.....come on, question why things are done and why regulations are put into place...and if you really are going to buy the reason is that the government "care" about the masses, then I have a bridge for sell that links the high desert to hawaii and it only takes an hour to get across the bridge----trust me, I would not lie---because I am doing this all for your own good?????? ;)
  9. GeoTerraTestudo

    GeoTerraTestudo Active Member 5 Year Member

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    The trouble is, we have an FDA, but they are not doing their job. How are cigarettes still on the market? Everybody knows they cause cancers, emphysema, and cardiovascular disease. Why aren't they banned or regulated the way marijuana and alcohol are? Because they are taxed and generate revenue for the government, and this is a bad reason. Why does the FDA allow Red #40 to be added to foods, when it's carcinogenic? Is it because they're in the back pocket of the chemical companies? And why does the FDA allow large soft drinks loaded with high-fructose corn syrup to be sold? Because it's only a food? But this type of drink has been shown to be linked to obesity and diabetes. Again, the FDA keeps letting us down.

    It is ironic that we have a growing population of obese people, and yet those people are unhealthy. Luckily, I am talking to tortoise keepers, so you guys will understand. :)

    The trouble with the industrial food chain is that it produces large quantities of high-calorie foods that are low in nutrients. Let's stick with tortoises for a moment. You could give your tortoise all the tasty cultivated lettuce it wants, and it's still going to develop health problems. Why? Because domestic lettuce may provide moisture, calories, and some fiber, but it is low in calcium, magnesium, selenium, and several vitamins. A tortoise can eat cultivated plants, but it needs a variety of these, as well as wild plants, supplements, and time outdoors to be at its optimal health.

    We are no different. There are obese people in this country with enough energy in their metabolism to have lots of fat kids. But the whole family is actually malnourished. This is because, although they get more than enough calories, they are starved of essential vitamins and minerals, not to mention exercise and sunshine. In short, we are like a society of lettuce-chomping tortoises, when we should be getting a more varied, quality diet.

    Now, I know that not everyone can afford the same quality of food. But we could certainly do a whole lot better than we are doing now. Part of the solution is to get the FDA to do its job. And if it won't, then I guess places like New York have to pass paternalistic legislation to keep junk food out of the system.
  10. dmmj

    dmmj The member formerly known as captain awesome Moderator 10 Year Member!

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    Geo with all due respect I can't believe you claim to be a libertarian and support this, I am truly flabbergasted.
  11. GeoTerraTestudo

    GeoTerraTestudo Active Member 5 Year Member

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    I am all for personal liberty, but I don't see how letting big corporations run amok contributes to our freedom. If someone wants to make a big bucket of sugary acid water and drink it himself, that's fine by me. But if Coke or Pepsi want to sell us that stuff as "soft drinks," then they should be ashamed of themselves.
  12. Terry Allan Hall

    Terry Allan Hall Active Member 5 Year Member

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    This thread means nothing w/o the accompanying video... :rolleyes: :p

    Ain't the size of the prize, just the motion on the ocean... :rolleyes: :p
  13. Vishnu2

    Vishnu2 Member 5 Year Member

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    This Coke taste delicious (as I write my State Senator thanking him for my rights to drink soda).
  14. Nixxy

    Nixxy New Member 5 Year Member

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    I'm a healthy person. I don't really drink soda or eat junk food, at all. Never really have. But honestly, it should be a personal decision.

    But consider it this way...

    It is kind of sad that they even have to think about implementing this due to how unhealthy some people are.

    Do I agree with it, though? Nah. I think of it like this...People should have, at least, some very basic freedoms, such as this. If people are not capable of making smart dietary decisions, and are eating unhealthy food, forcing them not too isn't the best course of action. Consider it this way, if someone is not smart enough to make the proper decision, does making it for them make them any better off? Perhaps. But what quality of life is that? And from what standpoint can you deem this on?

    Besides, I know a lot of people who eat junk food or drink soda just once and a while, for a little treat.
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