Are Star Tortoises really not territorial? Is it ok to keep them in pairs?

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Tom

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I would say it depends on their size and the tortoises themselves some do get along in pairs
And I say no they don't and you just don't recognize the problem. Can they survive and continue living? Yes. Of course they can. But living as a pair is stressful for both and not a good situation, even if there is not overt biting and ramming.
 

Rlt0929

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And I say no they don't and you just don't recognize the problem. Can they survive and continue living? Yes. Of course they can. But living as a pair is stressful for both and not a good situation, even if there is not overt biting and
 

Rlt0929

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I would say you’re exaggerating as u clearly don’t see multiple perspectives. Situations aren’t the same with all torts🤦‍♂️
 

Tom

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I would say you’re exaggerating as u clearly don’t see multiple perspectives. Situations aren’t the same with all torts🤦‍♂️
I am a career, trained, animal trainer and behaviorist. All I do is study, understand and modify animal behavior all day every day. I've been keeping turtles and tortoises since the 70's. I've kept them in every imaginable way in every in multiple places and observed the way other people keep them too over a span of several decades, literally all over the world.

I most definitely see, and have seen, multiple perspectives. The behavior I speak of can be easily observed in animals as primitive as flatworms. The vast majority of people keeping tortoises in pairs simply do not recognize the problem and since their tortoises have not died, they proclaim, like you, that it is fine. Its not fine. You can find hundreds of examples right here on this forum, in addition to what I've seen in person.
 

Rlt0929

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I am a career, trained, animal trainer and behaviorist. All I do is study, understand and modify animal behavior all day every day. I've been keeping turtles and tortoises since the 70's. I've kept them in every imaginable way in every in multiple places and observed the way other people keep them too over a span of several decades, literally all over the world.

I most definitely see, and have seen, multiple perspectives. The behavior I speak of can be easily observed in animals as primitive as flatworms. The vast majority of people keeping tortoises in pairs simply do not recognize the problem and since their tortoises have not died, they proclaim, like you, that it is fine. It’s not fine. You can find hundreds of examples right here on this forum, in addition to what I've seen in perso
 

Rlt0929

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I would say you’re incorrect as there are many different situations and u cannot speak for the entire hobby😂😂majority of people believe they know everything like u. Not saying you’re wrong 9/10 pairs are stressful on both animals but speaking for all tortoises is kinda silly as u clearly have not worked with all the tortoises in the world lol tortoises have personalities and not all of em are the same
 

Yvonne G

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I would say you’re incorrect as there are many different situations and u cannot speak for the entire hobby😂😂majority of people believe they know everything like u. Not saying you’re wrong 9/10 pairs are stressful on both animals but speaking for all tortoises is kinda silly as u clearly have not worked with all the tortoises in the world lol tortoises have personalities and not all of em are the same
Maybe not, however, THIS thread is about star tortoises and Tom DOES have experience with them.
 

ZEROPILOT

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And I say no they don't and you just don't recognize the problem. Can they survive and continue living? Yes. Of course they can. But living as a pair is stressful for both and not a good situation, even if there is not overt biting and ramming.
Amen
And NO
 

Tom

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Not saying you’re wrong 9/10 pairs are stressful on both animals but...
So you are admitting that I am right and that, by your estimation, 90% of the time my advice to never keep them as pairs is good and accurate advice. And you think that the other 10% of the time some tortoises might get along in time situations. So what is your advice to people reading? Go ahead and keep them as pairs, but 90% time it isn't going to work?

Okay. Please explain to the group what you base that on. Justify that 10%. I have college degrees in Animal Behavior Modification and Wildlife Education. I've kept hundreds of tortoises and turtles of most of the commonly available species over the last few decades. I've been experimenting with different ways of keeping them for decades. Who are you? What is your experience level and with which species? How many times have you housed torts as a pair and for how long for you to reach this conclusion? What are you observing, that I have not, that tells you that 1 out of every 10 pairs is getting along just fine and they are not chronically stressed by the situation? What are the signs of tortoise aggression, intimidation, and territoriality in your opinion? If you want to argue, let's argue. Back up your assertions, and I will back up mine.
 

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Here's an analogy I use. Can a cat and a hamster live together both roaming around a house happily? You bet. Photos all over Instagram of that kind of thing. However if you have a full grown cat and bring a hamster home and let them roam around together, what is the likelihood they become cuddlebuddies (or the hamster even survives)? if those odds are small (5%? less?) would you say "its OK to keep cats and hamsters together"? No you wouldn't. If they shouldn't be kept together the vast majority of the time, using the exception to the rule as the argument for removing the rule doesn't help anyone, much less the animals involved...
 
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