baby desert tortoise or not?

[AmordeAbba]

I'm in Long Beach, CA which is a very urban city & yesterday in my backyard on the grass... I found this little guy/girl. I've been trying to find out what it is and so far it seems to be some kind of a desert turtle. It looks like a hatchling. I was reading that it is illegal to keep "wildlife" as pets but at the same time...it was in my yard and I wasn't going to just leave it because my cat was about to start pouncing on it. It's about the size of a half dollar. There is NO way I'm going to put in back outside and leave it so please don't tell me that. I want to know if anyone can identify the actual type of turtle this is and where I can get some info on taking care if it. I used to have 2 box turtles for 11 years and someone else owns them now, so I'm not 100% clueless about them...but at the same time, I know there are different requirements for different turtles especially since this is still a baby. I'm still so lost in how he got there. There are no ponds around here, not lakes...I'm in a busy area where he could have easily got stepped on or snached up my a raccoon, opossum, cat, etc....so hopefully someone can bring their expert advice and help me out. I was going to take him to the reptile store and just let them take care of him but after sleeping on it I think I'll take care of him. (Depending on if I can get some good advice here.) Thanks in advance! I'll answer any more questions if needed.

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

Wow, that's literally a hatcling, it hasn't even absorbed to yolk sak all the way yet! That's a tortoise, not a turtle. He does NOT live in water.
I don't know what type, but I do know many desert tort species are protected and it's illegal to remove them from the wild! Hopefully someone will know more, like @Tom or @Yvonne G.

 

[AmordeAbba]

Wow, that's literally a hatcling, it hasn't even absorbed to yolk sak all the way yet! That's a tortoise, not a turtle. He does NOT live in water.
I don't know what type, but I do know many desert tort species are protected and it's illegal to remove them from the wild! Hopefully someone will know more, like @Tom or @Yvonne G.

Yeah, I had a feeling it would be illegal to keep him.
So I'll probably take him in to the reptile store and ask them what to do or if they can take care of it.

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

I'm really against taking tortoises from the wild, release him somewhere close to where you found him. thats what i would do.

 

[Yvonne G]

Yes, it's a desert tortoise. More than likely, a bird dropped him in your yard. Birds pick up baby tortoises then drop them from a high distance to break them open.

Since you found the tortoise in your yard, it is ok for you to keep it. But when it gets big enough and you're sure it's going to live, you can apply for a permit. No fee, and easy to get.

Don Williams in Bakersfield has written a very good care sheet for desert tortoise keepers:

http://www.donsdeserttortoises.com/2.html

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm really against taking tortoises from the wild, release him somewhere close to where you found him. thats what i would do.

No! Don't release him. It is against the law to release tortoises in California. If you lived in the desert and it would be natural for baby tortoises to show up in your yard, then ok, leave him there, but this is an imported baby. It is ok for you to care for it and apply for a permit to keep it.

I imagine at one time, many, many years ago, before SoCal exploded population-wise, there may have been a native desert tortoise population in Long Beach. But there sure isn't now. That baby is not native to your area of California.

 

[russian/sulcata/tortoise]

No! Don't release him. It is against the law to release tortoises in California. If you lived in the desert and it would be natural for baby tortoises to show up in your yard, then ok, leave him there, but this is an imported baby. It is ok for you to care for it and apply for a permit to keep it.

oh...... (still doesn't seem right) i agree with this law if it was an adult desert tortoise that has spent most of his life in captivity, an older tortoise like that would have a harder time surviving in the wild and it could pass diseases to wild desert tortoises. but why can't baby tortoise that have been in captivity for a day be released?

 

[AmordeAbba]

I found this good help....
http://www.tortoise.org/general/descare.html

 

[AmordeAbba]

Yes, it's a desert tortoise. More than likely, a bird dropped him in your yard. Birds pick up baby tortoises then drop them from a high distance to break them open.

Since you found the tortoise in your yard, it is ok for you to keep it. But when it gets big enough and you're sure it's going to live, you can apply for a permit. No fee, and easy to get.

Don Williams in Bakersfield has written a very good care sheet for desert tortoise keepers:

http://www.donsdeserttortoises.com/2.html

Wow okay! Reading it now! Thank you.

 

[Tom]

oh...... (still doesn't seem right) i agree with this law if it was an adult desert tortoise that has spent most of his life in captivity, an older tortoise like that would have a harder time surviving in the wild and it could pass diseases to wild desert tortoises. but why can't baby tortoise that have been in captivity for a day be released?

For one thing it would almost certainly die if she drove it to the desert and turned it loose somewhere. The is not a wild caught baby. This is a captive bred baby. Long Beach is nowhere near DT territory.

One day in captivity is long enough to contract diseases that could infect and kill and entire wild population.

 

[AmordeAbba]

For one thing it would almost certainly die if she drove it to the desert and turned it loose somewhere. The is not a wild caught baby. This is a captive bred baby. Long Beach is nowhere near DT territory.

One day in captivity is long enough to contract diseases that could infect and kill and entire wild population.

So in a nutshell, what should I do to care for this hatchling?

 

[Tom]

I'm in Long Beach, CA which is a very urban city & yesterday in my backyard on the grass... I found this little guy/girl. I've been trying to find out what it is and so far it seems to be some kind of a desert turtle. It looks like a hatchling. I was reading that it is illegal to keep "wildlife" as pets but at the same time...it was in my yard and I wasn't going to just leave it because my cat was about to start pouncing on it. It's about the size of a half dollar. There is NO way I'm going to put in back outside and leave it so please don't tell me that. I want to know if anyone can identify the actual type of turtle this is and where I can get some info on taking care if it. I used to have 2 box turtles for 11 years and someone else owns them now, so I'm not 100% clueless about them...but at the same time, I know there are different requirements for different turtles especially since this is still a baby. I'm still so lost in how he got there. There are no ponds around here, not lakes...I'm in a busy area where he could have easily got stepped on or snached up my a raccoon, opossum, cat, etc....so hopefully someone can bring their expert advice and help me out. I was going to take him to the reptile store and just let them take care of him but after sleeping on it I think I'll take care of him. (Depending on if I can get some good advice here.) Thanks in advance! I'll answer any more questions if needed.

What you have there is a CA Desert Tortoise hatchling. They hatch this time of year out in the desert and then almost immediately go into hibernation. Sometime they hatch in their nest chamber and stay in there together and hibernate, and then emerge all together the next spring.

Most likely one of your neighbors has a pair and this baby was able to squeeze into your yard. It is perfectly legal to keep them. It is not legal to go out to the desert and collect one. You are supposed to have a permit. You get the permit through your local CTTC chapter and as Yvonne said, it is simple and free. However, they won't want to issue you a permit until your baby is 2-3 years old. The reason is that most of them don't survive their first two years. Sadly this is due to the bad advice that they dispense on how to care for them. Almost everything you read on the internet tells you all about how to dehydrate and stunt them. Following their advice will eventually result in bladder or kidney stones, which is a common problem with this species. I recommend you not follow their advice. I've raised dozens of DT hatchlings over many years and not a one of mine had ever died. Instead they thrive and grow. The problem is that their housing recommendations are based on assumptions of above ground weather in the desert. But these guys don't just walk around all day in the scorching desert sun above ground. They live in burrows under ground. Dehydration is the number one killer of captive DTs. Daily soaks in warm shallow water will really help to keep your baby alive and well.

I typed this up for russian tortoises, but care, housing and feeding is very similar for the two different species. If you start your little baby like this, he will thrive: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

Here is a thread with some outdoor housing ideas for days with nice weather:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/page-2

Here is what NOT to do:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/


One thing to be cautious of in your area as your tortoise grow and spends more time outside is your cold clammy beach weather. It is not good for them to live near the coast. Your indoor housing will solve this problem and the tortoise can go outside on warm sunny days. As it gets older and bigger, the addition of a heated night box will allow him to live outside full time.

Good luck. I hope you have lots of questions.

 

[Tom]

So in a nutshell, what should I do to care for this hatchling?

Click on the links above. Care sheet is there for you.

 

[Ciri]

The Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum has excellent info compiled by reptile specialist veterinarian who has cared for the museums desert tortoises for 35 years:

http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/tap_tortcare.php

the San Diego Turtle and Tortoise Society is a great organization:

http://www.sdturtle.org/public_documents/sdtts_goodandbadgardenplants.pdf#!care-sheets/c217k

This is a brochure listing lots of really healthy native foods for desert tortoises:
http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/tortoise/documents/NativePlantsforDesertTortoises_2008.pdf

a good source of seeds (they even have a desert tortoise wildflower mix):
http://shop.nativeseeds.org/pages/seeds

I hope I'm not overwhelming you with information.

Good luck with your desert tortoise.

 

[AmordeAbba]

The Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum has excellent info compiled by reptile specialist veterinarian who has cared for the museums desert tortoises for 35 years:

http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/tap_tortcare.php

the San Diego Turtle and Tortoise Society is a great organization:

http://www.sdturtle.org/public_documents/sdtts_goodandbadgardenplants.pdf#!care-sheets/c217k

This is a brochure listing lots of really healthy native foods for desert tortoises:
http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/tortoise/documents/NativePlantsforDesertTortoises_2008.pdf

a good source of seeds (they even have a desert tortoise wildflower mix):
http://shop.nativeseeds.org/pages/seeds

I hope I'm not overwhelming you with information.

Good luck with your desert tortoise.

No no I need all the info I can get! Thank you so much!

 

[AmordeAbba]

Click on the links above. Care sheet is there for you.

Wow you're awesome! Thank you, and yes I am sure I'll have lots of questions!

 

[Tom]

Keep in mind that most government sponsored care sheets, like the one Ciri linked above, often have recommendations that will lead to the death of your tortoise. The author of the first link above even states that "... some mortality can be expected, but survival is usually considerably higher than in the wild."
This is not acceptable to me. I'm not striving for a "survival" rate higher than that of the wild. I'm striving for not only 100% survival, but I want all of mine to thrive, not just survive.

Also keep in mind that what works in the AZ desert might not be best for Long Beach, CA.

 

[phebe121]

I say keep him hes just a baby now i dont think this goes for everything sometimes the law sucks and it just has to be broken i am not in any way shape or form telling you to brake the law but when it come to saving a baby animal of anykind as long as you know you can and will do everything possible to give it the best life i say go for it and we are the only place that knows where you got him so take good care of that little guy and tell us a name alrady

 

[AmordeAbba]

I say keep him hes just a baby now i dont think this goes for everything sometimes the law sucks and it just has to be broken i am not in any way shape or form telling you to brake the law but when it come to saving a baby animal of anykind as long as you know you can and will do everything possible to give it the best life i say go for it and we are the only place that knows where you got him so take good care of that little guy and tell us a name alrady

Well, I let my oldest daughter name him/her & she chose Tiddles. I would have chose something else...but Tiddle's sounds like a good gender neutral name.

 

[AmordeAbba]

Keep in mind that most government sponsored care sheets, like the one Ciri linked above, often have recommendations that will lead to the death of your tortoise. The author of the first link above even states that "... some mortality can be expected, but survival is usually considerably higher than in the wild."
This is not acceptable to me. I'm not striving for a "survival" rate higher than that of the wild. I'm striving for not only 100% survival, but I want all of mine to thrive, not just survive.

Also keep in mind that what works in the AZ desert might not be best for Long Beach, CA.

Good points, I'm still reading what you have suggested.