Baby leopard tort eats little, sleeps ALL the time

[goodxy]

hi there im new to the forum.

I have a baby leopard thats months old for nearly a month now. He seldom eats, moves, and sleeps more than 20 hours per day. Temparature is about 32 C(89.6 F). The only time he kinda wakes up and moves a bit is when i soak him in warm water. is it normal?

Thx!

Joe

 

[Seiryu]

Well he is still very small. However a few things.

The basking temperature needs to be between 95-105 F. 90 F is not hot enough.

Ambient room temperature needs to be 70 F+. I find mine like it to be 75-80 room temp, and a 100 F basking spot.

Make sure to keep your substrate moist, and soak the baby daily.

What size enclosure does he have? Do you also have a UVB light? (10.0 tube fluorescent or Mercury Vapor)? Can you take him outside where you live? Even an hour a day in good weather is sufficient, but more the better. Just make sure you are watching him out there.

 

[goodxy]

Thank you for your reply!

Im in Hong Kong and the weather hasnt been kind lately. I do have a UVB light which is 10% FLo Reptile.

Let's say the enclosure is more than 10 times the size of my baby leopard.

I wonder if hes dying or something....

Well he is still very small. However a few things.

The basking temperature needs to be between 95-105 F. 90 F is not hot enough.

Ambient room temperature needs to be 70 F+. I find mine like it to be 75-80 room temp, and a 100 F basking spot.

Make sure to keep your substrate moist, and soak the baby daily.

What size enclosure does he have? Do you also have a UVB light? (10.0 tube fluorescent or Mercury Vapor)? Can you take him outside where you live? Even an hour a day in good weather is sufficient, but more the better. Just make sure you are watching him out there.

 

[Seiryu]

Thank you for your reply!

Im in Hong Kong and the weather hasnt been kind lately. I do have a UVB light which is 10% FLo Reptile.

Let's say the enclosure is more than 10 times the size of my baby leopard.

I wonder if hes dying or something....

Let's hope not. What are your ambient temperatures in the house where he is? You probably need to bump the temps (definitely the basking spot needs to be higher than 90). And ambient around 80 F will help.

Make sure to soak him daily.

Pictures of the setup will help as well.

 

[goodxy]

Thank you for your reply!

Im in Hong Kong and the weather hasnt been kind lately. I do have a UVB light which is 10% FLo Reptile.

Let's say the enclosure is more than 10 times the size of my baby leopard.

I wonder if hes dying or something....

Let's hope not. What are your ambient temperatures in the house where he is? You probably need to bump the temps (definitely the basking spot needs to be higher than 90). And ambient around 80 F will help.

Make sure to soak him daily.

Pictures of the setup will help as well.

i keep him in a glass tank. i think the temperatures are fine. and yes i soak him every day and he poops most of the time until yesterday

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the UVB light is there, not in the pic tho

 

[Seiryu]

Thanks for uploading the pics.

You need some type of substrate for him. Orchid bark, coco coir, cypress mulch, plain top soil (with no fertilizers etc, just soil) will work.

He is likely not as active partly because he is walking on very smooth surfaces. Probably wears himself out really quickly because of no traction. I don't see a hide in there either.

is the UVB light a compact fluorescent? I don't see it in there. It needs to be directly hitting the tortoise as well, not through a screen or anything.

If it is a compact fluorescent I would replace it with a tube light or mercury vapor. The compacts have been known to cause eye problems, lethargy and many other problems.

 

[goodxy]

Thanks for your reply!

Yes this is a compact fluorescent directly hitting the whole thing.

I used to have a hide for him but he tends to hide in it all day to sleep. I was worried about lack of UVB exposure so I decided to remove it for the being.

I guess I need to get some moist substrate for him and hope he will be all right.

---

he is awake now when i take him out(which I restraint from doing due to the cold weather)

 

[Seiryu]

Thanks for your reply!

Yes this is a compact fluorescent directly hitting the whole thing.

I used to have a hide for him but he tends to hide in it all day to sleep. I was worried about lack of UVB exposure so I decided to remove it for the being.

I guess I need to get some moist substrate for him and hope he will be all right.

I would definitely replace the compact fluorescent with a tube 10.0 light or a mercury vapor bulb (heat and UVB in 1).

What have you tried feeding him? Supplementing with calcium a couple times a week with vitamins once a week will also help.

 

[goodxy]

i tried to feed him lettuce, weeds, timothy hay, fruits,etc.

A fussy eater as he is, the only thing he will take a look at so far is lettuce.

yes i have calsium supllement for him

 

[Seiryu]

i tried to feed him lettuce, weeds, timothy hay, fruits,etc.

A fussy eater as he is, the only thing he will take a look at so far is lettuce.

yes i have calsium supllement for him

What kind of lettuce? Like romaine? Or collard,turnip, radish, endive, escarole? Romaine has very little nutritional value. The 5 I listed are very good though.

I would stay away from the fruits almost entirely. He might not be eating as good because of the compact fluorescent as well.

 

[goodxy]

this type of UVB light is commonplace in the tortoise raising community here in hong kong. and their tortoiese seem active to me.

 

[Tom]

I just want to offer a second opinion that everything Rob is telling you is right on. Make the changes he's suggesting, actually check those temps and create a proper basking area, and you should see immediate improvement.

 

[goodxy]

thanks for all the input!

 

[tortoisenerd]

Having a hide (actually more than one...one next to the basking spot and one next to the food and one in the coolest spot) is very important...a tort doesn't need to bask too much at all to get a sufficient amount. I would worry more about the stress from no hide than I would the lack of UVB. They need a hide to feel safe to bask, which they need to do to eat. In the wild, baby torts hide all the time to avoid predators (ie. they don't get much UVB). But, the better the bulb you have, the more your tort may thrive (such as a Mercury Vapor Bulb). Also, if you can get it any outdoor time in the sun, the more it will thrive (when its 75/80 F or more). It is normal for torts to sleep as much as you describe as long as they are eating and thermoregulating/basking. A normal hatchling day is to wake up, bask, have a snack, nap, bask, snack, nap, bask, snack, and then go sleep for about 12 hours or more. Your tort should be eating a pile of greens about its size daily. You already got some great advice which I agree with too.

I think a better bulb could help (the UVB of a MVB is closer to the sun, vs. a compact fluorescent or tube fluorescent basically are glorified house lightbulbs with a bit of UVB), double check the temp gradient (if you can't get a good gradient, you may need a larger enclosure and/or one that isn't glass), ensure you have a safe substrate of at least a few inches (more the better) which can be kept moist and warm, soaks, daily pure calcium powder, and stick to the good greens/weeds/lettuces (he won't eat hay at his age, if ever, and fruit is bad...keep trying with any chemical-free weeds which are safe for torts).

From the photo, I'm not sure if he can get in and out of that water dish nor if it is deep enough for him to soak up to where the plastron and carapace meet. If it is deep enough, sinking it into substrate can help. Otherwise, try a plant saucer or similar which is a bit deeper, and set him inside of it so you can ensure he can enter and exit safely (if its not easy for them they won't use it). If you keep the current UVB, make sure it is close enough to the tort that it can be useful (look on the box for the minimum distance...if you mount it too high the tort doesn't get UVB, and if its too low, its harmful). Do you have a good amount of light in the enclosure? I see a heat emitter and you mention a compact flourescent. Adding a house flood light can also help activity...if you just have the room lighting, that isn't enough. To add more light, which also adds heat, you may need a larger enclosure to get the gradient right though.

Experiment with the temps with the tort out of the enclosure to ensure no spot gets too hot and you have an appropriate gradient: you want a good amount of floor space in the 80s (what hatchlings spend most of their time in, such as when they do daytime hiding), with a basking spot of 95/100, and a minimum temp area of 75. Night temp of 70/75 is good, for which you may or may not need heat (no light ever at night). Use an accurate thermometer like a temp gun, not an analog gauge like I see in the photo (which aren't even accurate to +/- 10 degrees a lot of times). You can get a temp gun starting at $25 U.S. They are a point and press the button type of device...very quick and accurate. Good luck!

 

[Badgemash]

I use one of those little half logs from the pet store as a hide. I cut it in half on the diagonal and stuck it in the corner in the basking area to make a sort of triangle shaped hide. That way they still feel safely covered, but a lot of light gets in too. Mine come out to eat, and then sleep the rest of they day away, except when they're forced to wake up for soaks (although Gunny did go to sleep in the bath once). I would estimate mine sleep around 18-20 hours a day.

-Devon

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Goodxy:

Welcome to the forum!! May we know your name?

Baby tortoises are prey and so they hide all the time. It must be very stressful on your baby to be out in the open all the time.

I don't think he's warm enough. If they can't get warm, they won't eat.

 

[Neal]

I don't have time to read everyone's responses so sorry if mine repeats what was said. I did glance over a couple and it looks like you got some good advice...so I'll just echo some, it seems like you're at an critical point with this tortoise.

- First I would get some substrate for your tortoise. I'm not sure what's available in Hong Kong, but if you can find peat moss your good to go...even shredding up that paper that's around your aquarium and using it as a substrate is better than nothing.

- Next, get him a place to hide - hallow log, plastic shoe box, build something out of legos...again, anything is better than nothing.

- Then work on the heat. Your temperature is OK, I don't know how well he can digest his food at that temp. I've noticed that mine do better when they have a spot where they can elevate their body temperature to 95+. This should get him more active and want to eat more.

Other than that, the diet is ok for now and the size of tank he is in will do...but may be addressed when he becomes noticeable better and eating more.

When a baby tortoise slows down it's activity level and doesn't eat as much it will deteriorate very rapidly. It seems you posted this awhile ago, I hope you have already gotten started on this...if not I would start right this second. If indeed the tortoise has slowed down and eats very little, it is likely dyeing.