Baby Redfoot(s) Question-Bullying Aggression? Behavior issues...

dmmj

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correct me if I'm wrong but biting has also been observed?
 

NDevon

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correct me if I'm wrong but biting has also been observed?

With tortoise 3 who was then removed. The discussion then went on to should the original two be seperated as one sits in the food.

That's how I read it anyway, number 4 is seperate anyway as it's much younger.
 

dmmj

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there's no specific need to separate yet but I tend to be a worry wart and if they were mine I would separate. the one that has been separated was it a cherry head? Sorry for asking questions already been answered
 

NDevon

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I think it was, one and two Redfoot and number 3 a Cherryhead.

Why would you seperate? Do you keep Redfoots or Cherryheads together or individually? If they were firing I would seperate them, but I don't believe sitting on the food is always a sign of aggression or bullying and that is, I think, the only issue between the two of them - if it is indeed an issue.

If you read the first post I think it's all laid out in there, that's where I have my info from anyway!
 

crabby-J

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Wow I never thought my post would lead to such debate, I find it fascinating! I have all 3 babies together again after a night apart (Really for me to read and think all this over in my head) they are doing fine now, I watch them eat closely, I do believe it was an accident. My tortoises are "Babies" still not adults quite yet. My oldest is about 1.5 years, I have 2 that are 1 year and one that is only 3 months old I keep in her own enclosure because she is very tiny. I don't plan on adding any more tortoises in my life so don't fret to those who voted against that, I have no plans on living with more than 4 tortoises for the remainder of my life ;)

I do understand that they will have issues, not all my babies are as easy going as the next and some are going to be more dominant then the others, I am trying to watch them more when I get off work (Which someone noted you can't watch your torts 24-7) I work A LOT so I don't always have time to keep an eye on them but I do often. They sleep 22 hours a day still, again they are babies still. The older they get the more they start to wonder out and explore, nibble on grass whatever tortoises "like" to do in their spare time.

Again I have 4 tortoises= 3 that live together and 1 that is just a hatchling :) I have several friends that have "pairs" of redfoots that do just fine so I understand it can go both ways. The reason i got the 3rd was because I read keeping in pairs was not a good idea, the 4th was just an impulse which I admit but am greatly happy with her :) One day when she reaches the right size she may be able to be introduced to my 3 but I don't mind keeping her alone either. I just would prefer my oldest 3 get along, but I understand that may not work out in the future. (Vicki from the tortoiseyard is great)

I have been updating the size of my enclosure every 3-6 months as I see them grow more and become more active, I have been through at least 4 enclosures so far making sure they all have enough room for all 3 tortoises. My current setup is 3 very large storage bins connected with UVB & UVA lighting, humidity is 80-85% 24-7, temps are ambient and are a steady 80-85 degrees throughout the day. I have 5 hides for 3 tortoises and they all have their own one which they sleep in nightly. I use a mix of coco fiber, cypress mulch bedding, I grow grasses and have baby spider plants in the enclosure and am growing more up to be larger to add as well.

I feed all organic foods, spring mix, radicchio, kale, dandelion leaves, dandelions, hibiscus, clovers, waxworms, apples, melons, papaya, berries, mushrooms, chicken, squash, zucchini, pumpkin, and use a vitamin/calcium powder 3 times a week. They also enjoy their cuttlebones

When it is warm in Michigan (for like 3 months out of the year) the tortoises go outside for several hours a day while under my watchful eye from predators, stray cats, birds, raccoons, possums, we have lots of backyard threats for tortoises under 1 pound mark..

I weigh my tortoise 1-2 times per month and log everything, I monitor growth, and weight gain, I soak them 2-3 times per week and watch for any signs of illness. I work at a vet have have fecals tested 1-2 times per year esp when they are outdoors in the spring/summer.

So that is basically everything I do for them, I wanted to explain so people get where I was coming from. I have read and learned a great deal about my tortoises and was just worried to see one bite another, I don't understand "tortoise physiology" as I have worked with dogs for over 20 years tortoises are a little more complicated...haha

Thanks for everyone's input, I have a great deal to learn about tortoise behavior I guess
 

crabby-J

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there's no specific need to separate yet but I tend to be a worry wart and if they were mine I would separate. the one that has been separated was it a cherry head? Sorry for asking questions already been answered

Just because I am a worry wort..:) They are together again, like I mention my cherry head has been a "butt head" since the beginning, but I think she is starting to find her place amongst the rest
 

dmmj

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I think it was, one and two Redfoot and number 3 a Cherryhead.

Why would you seperate? Do you keep Redfoots or Cherryheads together or individually? If they were firing I would seperate them, but I don't believe sitting on the food is always a sign of aggression or bullying and that is, I think, the only issue between the two of them - if it is indeed an issue.

If you read the first post I think it's all laid out in there, that's where I have my info from anyway!
I would separate because a tortoise in captivity should not be subject to bullying. And I keep redfoot separate
 

dmmj

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Just the one time when I posted this thread I noticed the cherryhead bite my oldest redfoot
Cherry heads are more aggressive from all the threads that I have seen.
 

ascott

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I thought the same as the rest of your post until I read otherwise regarding the above. Redfoots have been observed sharing hides in the wild when there are other options. Of course that could be bullying too, it could be that several are all fighting over the same spot.

California Desert Tortoise have also been observed occupying the same burrow....later to be seen fighting to the death...animals will come together in moments they feel necessary for survival...not for the warm fuzzy feelings we humans put on them....again, my take is all.
 

crabby-J

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Quick update the tortoises are all fine together, I have had no problems at all. I am glad I put them together again!
 

jockma

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I imagine there could be BIG problems eventually (ie when approaching sexual maturity) if you end up having two males and one female. I think the "they do better in groups" thing comes with a less-spoken addendum, "they do better in groups if you have less males than females". Not necessarily, but definitely a safeguard worthy of consideration since they sometimes can fight harshly or even to the death over females even in the wild and I can't help but feel sorry for a lone female trying to avoid two males 24/7.

I think you mentioned this was only for now while they're young and not grunting flashing horny adult males. I'd still be careful though, too many horror stories. :(
 

MPRC

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I imagine there could be BIG problems eventually (ie when approaching sexual maturity) if you end up having two males and one female. I think the "they do better in groups" thing comes with a less-spoken addendum, "they do better in groups if you have less males than females". Not necessarily, but definitely a safeguard worthy of consideration since they sometimes can fight harshly or even to the death over females even in the wild and I can't help but feel sorry for a lone female trying to avoid two males 24/7.

I think you mentioned this was only for now while they're young and not grunting flashing horny adult males. I'd still be careful though, too many horror stories. :(

Sounds like bath time used to be around here. I would dump all 5 into the tub until I realized poor Rambo was the object of affection for both boys in which case we started soaking boys and girls separately.
 

crabby-J

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Well 3 of the 4 were incubated to be female though that is not always 100% my other I have no clue, I'm ready for when that time comes but for now they are getting along fine, I do notice the different personalities but again they are still really young. I do understand how adult or mature males can be and I'm watching out for the flashing and trying to tell who is what sex but now it's too hard to tell :) Hopefully I will have 3 girls and 1 boy or 4 girls..lol haha!! Watch they will all turn out to be males...shssh! I'll just deal with it though even if it means they all go separate!
 

jockma

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It always feels like they turn out to be the sex we didn't expect or sexing is a wild goose chase all around. :D Mine was supposedly male, then started looking female, then male again, and then a vet told me "DEFINITELY female, don't question it!" and a year later he stuck his peepee out at me. Hopefully you get answers before it comes to that point, I wouldn't wish an impromptu flashing on anybody...
 

crabby-J

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God I hope Raymond is a male! Just because he seems so macho and his name is Raymond! Even if he turns out to be female he is still my boy! LOL I don't wish to see the flashing, I have seen pictures and I think I would freak out..lol Raymond is going on 2.5-3 years old so I should have some kind of hint soon I would guess..it could be a while though..
 

crabby-J

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I would separate because a tortoise in captivity should not be subject to bullying. And I keep redfoot separate

Like I said this happened once and it was an accident, they get along fine right now, they are all super tiny still..I keep the tiny cherryhead alone because she is to smal, the larger 3 live together fine now. The Right bottom tort bit my top left on accident, I was just freaked out when I started this thread
13076618_1711754062395918_1230026697116728077_n.jpg
 

Pearly

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Like I said this happened once and it was an accident, they get along fine right now, they are all super tiny still..I keep the tiny cherryhead alone because she is to smal, the larger 3 live together fine now. The Right bottom tort bit my top left on accident, I was just freaked out when I started this thread
13076618_1711754062395918_1230026697116728077_n.jpg
What a lovely Brigade you've got!!! Cute! Cute! Cute!!!!
 

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