Baby sulcata becoming lethargic - started dry

fernando7kose

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Hi everyone, my name is Fernando. I live in Indonesia.
I have posted twice in this forum and all the members have been really helpful, I'm very thankful for it.

I decided to make another thread to discuss about the health of my baby sulcata.
As the title said, I got my sulcata from a very dry breeder. He didn't even know how old is my baby sulcata.

I'm assuming my baby sulcata is around 2 months old. He weights 60 gram, 2.1 inches.

My baby sulcata used to be very active, especially outside. He also used to roam inside his enclosure.
These past 3 days he has been very lethargic, he roams outside for a bit before falling asleep. He barely moves inside his enclosure. He also barely eats now.

My setup :
1. I have a closed top enclosure made of terpaulin, humidty is always around 80-85%.
2. Substrate is a mixture of coco husk & coco coir.
3. Basking spot is around 95-100, cool side is round 85-88, ambience is around 90. I'm still using Exoterra 75 W spot bulb for the heat, waiting for my friend to bring me incadescent flood bulb as Tom suggested. Temperature never drops below 80 since I live in a tropical country.
4. I always soak him twice a day with warm water, 30 mins each soak.
5. He gets sunlight for at least 1 hour everyday.
6. He eats dandelion, clover, grape leaf. I chop it down nicely & mix it with maizuri/zoomed pellets. I also give him calcium powder once a week. He used to have no problem eating what I prepared, when he roams outside in my garden I always see him munching down the clovers & grasses.

I have read all the care sheet that @Tom provided numeorus times to make sure that I'm giving my baby sulcata the best. I also have read through so many articles in this forum about sick baby sulcata & "breeder failure syndrome".
My baby sulcata is still not showing any sign of
"breeder failure syndrome". His shell is still hard his eyes are still open, his nostrills are also clear.

Please let me know if I'm doing something wrong or if you have any suggestion on what to do. Should I soak him with baby carrot & pedialyte? I read it from @Yvonne G 's thread that it's very helpful.


Attached are the pictures of my setup & the baby sulcata. Thank you so much 😀🙏
20220825_073320.jpg20220825_073258.jpg20220825_073252.jpg20220825_073241.jpg20220825_071821.jpg20220824_181508.jpg
 

dd33

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Do you know where he came from? Was he imported from the US?
 

Tom

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Hi everyone, my name is Fernando. I live in Indonesia.
I have posted twice in this forum and all the members have been really helpful, I'm very thankful for it.

I decided to make another thread to discuss about the health of my baby sulcata.
As the title said, I got my sulcata from a very dry breeder. He didn't even know how old is my baby sulcata.

I'm assuming my baby sulcata is around 2 months old. He weights 60 gram, 2.1 inches.

My baby sulcata used to be very active, especially outside. He also used to roam inside his enclosure.
These past 3 days he has been very lethargic, he roams outside for a bit before falling asleep. He barely moves inside his enclosure. He also barely eats now.

My setup :
1. I have a closed top enclosure made of terpaulin, humidty is always around 80-85%.
2. Substrate is a mixture of coco husk & coco coir.
3. Basking spot is around 95-100, cool side is round 85-88, ambience is around 90. I'm still using Exoterra 75 W spot bulb for the heat, waiting for my friend to bring me incadescent flood bulb as Tom suggested. Temperature never drops below 80 since I live in a tropical country.
4. I always soak him twice a day with warm water, 30 mins each soak.
5. He gets sunlight for at least 1 hour everyday.
6. He eats dandelion, clover, grape leaf. I chop it down nicely & mix it with maizuri/zoomed pellets. I also give him calcium powder once a week. He used to have no problem eating what I prepared, when he roams outside in my garden I always see him munching down the clovers & grasses.

I have read all the care sheet that @Tom provided numeorus times to make sure that I'm giving my baby sulcata the best. I also have read through so many articles in this forum about sick baby sulcata & "breeder failure syndrome".
My baby sulcata is still not showing any sign of
"breeder failure syndrome". His shell is still hard his eyes are still open, his nostrills are also clear.

Please let me know if I'm doing something wrong or if you have any suggestion on what to do. Should I soak him with baby carrot & pedialyte? I read it from @Yvonne G 's thread that it's very helpful.


Attached are the pictures of my setup & the baby sulcata. Thank you so much 😀🙏
View attachment 349169View attachment 349170View attachment 349171View attachment 349172View attachment 349173View attachment 349174
Is that food on his face?

The substrate looks too wet. It should be damp, not wet.

How long have you had this baby? It appears to be less than 6 weeks old. It still has an egg tooth.

Is it really 60 grams, or is it closer to 50?
 

fernando7kose

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Is that food on his face?

The substrate looks too wet. It should be damp, not wet.

How long have you had this baby? It appears to be less than 6 weeks old. It still has an egg tooth.

Is it really 60 grams, or is it closer to 50?
Thank you for the reply Tom.
Yes that's maizuri on his face, he was sleeping on it.
Should I try to dry up the substrate a little bit? The humidity is always around 80-85% though.
I've had him for 1 month. I weighted him these past 3 days, the weight varies around 59-62 grams.
Do you know where he came from? Was he imported from the US?
I'm not sure where he came from, the breeder doesn't even know the babies' age. I would ask the breeder
 

dd33

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I see a missing nail on the front right limb, is he missing nails on the back legs?

@mastershake take a look at this.
 

Gijoux

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fernando7kose

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The Tort's other front foot, not the foot missing the nail, looks like it also has something going on with the foot.
Do you have any idea on what I should do?
He barely opened his eyes yesterday.
I tried to let him roam outside and he didn't move.
I already gave him carrot soak with Pedialyte these past two days.
 

TammyJ

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This is sad. I hope for the best though. Such a sweet little guy. You are caring for him very well.
 

dd33

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I was hoping @mastershake would have commented as he is the expert on this subject. Most of what we are seeing in the pictures are symptoms of Austwickia. There probably isn't anything you can do to save this little guy. Check out the threads on this forum for Yellow Bumps or Austwickia.
 

Gijoux

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I am afraid @dd33 is correct. This infection has become so common in the Sulcata population and now it is being seen in other breeds as well. We are not sure why this is happening and unfortunately it is quite lethal. It is very contagious to other reptile species as well. Whenever I hear a complaint of slowing down and not eating I usually recommend increasing the temperature, BUT your temps are already on the warmer side. Perhaps allowing the temps to be slightly cooler might help, but looking at the missing nails and that area on the foot missing scales and looking slightly goopy, along with the lethargy are really not good signs. The reptile veterinarians aren't having luck with this condition either. It appears that this infection requires antibiotics for over a year if the baby stays alive, which CANNOT be good for a baby tortoise either. I am so very sorry you and your baby are having to go through this. The soakings you are doing will help keep him comfortable.
 

fernando7kose

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After reading through some articles about Austwickia, I think my baby sulcata is showing the symptomps.

Are these considered as yellow bumps?
20220827_083804.jpg20220827_083754.jpg20220827_083744.jpg


A few days after I brought him home, I also noticed peeling skin around his neck area (which is also one of the signs for Austwickia from what I read).
20220728_130822.jpg


Thank you everyone for the replies. All of you have been really helpful.
Any suggestion on what I should do to make him at least more comfortable?
 

wellington

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Sadly that baby does not look well.
That disc temp gauge is not a good one and is inaccurate. Get a digital temp/humidity gauge.
Best you can do is keep the care accurate and if he gets worse and looks to be suffering then have a vet put him down.
Not sure if he has austwickia or not but if he does he likely won't make it. So very sad. If that's the case, be sure to let the person you bought him from know and tell him he needs to stop selling his babies as they all are likely infected.
Hopefully @mastershake will see his alerts and comment of what he thinks.
 

fernando7kose

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Sadly that baby does not look well.
That disc temp gauge is not a good one and is inaccurate. Get a digital temp/humidity gauge.
Best you can do is keep the care accurate and if he gets worse and looks to be suffering then have a vet put him down.
Not sure if he has austwickia or not but if he does he likely won't make it. So very sad. If that's the case, be sure to let the person you bought him from know and tell him he needs to stop selling his babies as they all are likely infected.
Hopefully @mastershake will see his alerts and comment of what he thinks.
Thank you for the reply.
I do have the digital one, I put it near his humid hide to monitor the ambient temperature. I'm using the analog one to monitor the temperature of the basking spot.
I will make sure to tell the breeder about it.
 

Gijoux

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Sadly that baby does not look well.
That disc temp gauge is not a good one and is inaccurate. Get a digital temp/humidity gauge.
Best you can do is keep the care accurate and if he gets worse and looks to be suffering then have a vet put him down.
Not sure if he has austwickia or not but if he does he likely won't make it. So very sad. If that's the case, be sure to let the person you bought him from know and tell him he needs to stop selling his babies as they all are likely infected.
Hopefully @mastershake will see his alerts and comment of what he thinks.
After reading through some articles about Austwickia, I think my baby sulcata is showing the symptomps.

Are these considered as yellow bumps?
View attachment 349230View attachment 349231View attachment 349232


A few days after I brought him home, I also noticed peeling skin around his neck area (which is also one of the signs for Austwickia from what I read).
View attachment 349233


Thank you everyone for the replies. All of you have been really helpful.
Any suggestion on what I should do to make him at least more comfortable?
I am so sorry to say that I think it is AW, but of course I can't know for sure. Those areas you have pointed out look like the bumps. All your enclosure will need to be completely sterilized if this turns out to be AW.
 

dd33

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Please be careful with any of the supplies that have come in contact with the the tortoise and the tortoise body if it dies. Austwickia can spread to many other types of reptiles. I get so worried when I see these cases pop up in places like Indonesia where you likely have many native reptiles running around in close proximity.
 

fernando7kose

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I am so sorry to say that I think it is AW, but of course I can't know for sure. Those areas you have pointed out look like the bumps. All your enclosure will need to be completely sterilized if this turns out to be AW.
Please be careful with any of the supplies that have come in contact with the the tortoise and the tortoise body if it dies. Austwickia can spread to many other types of reptiles. I get so worried when I see these cases pop up in places like Indonesia where you likely have many native reptiles running around in close proximity.
Thank your for the reply. I will make sure to sterilize everything. He is still barely hanging on, he is only a little bit active when he is outside.

I have a few questions :
1. From what I read, it seems like austwickia mostly happens to sulcatas. Are other species more safe from this disease?

2. Is austwickia also harmful to human?
 

mastershake

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im not sure why this site doesnt notify me when im tagged i do have notifications turned on. maybe a mod can check that for me somehow?

but im so sorry that does look like a case of aw. there are 2 general ways this looks one is the yellow-white ish bumps or blister like spots. then there is this way with the yellow plaques. this way seems to sadly be the worse of the two and seems to be a much faster progression of the austwickia. along with the toe nail loss and the skin issues im afraid this is pretty much 100% (imo) austwickia.

i would def have responded sooner.

we now have confirmation this has been positive in other species, leopards. red foot, russians, greeks, aldabra etc

no it is not contagious to humans but it is HIGHLY contagious to all other species of reptiles.

typically there is no way to sterilize everything. the best this is to replace anything you can. we have seen people try to sterilize only to have the next ones placed into the enclosure end up with the same thing weeks to months later. we generally recc to people to properly dispose of or even burn things that have come into contact with this. its sad but this seems here to stay now and i dont think at this point there is any way to eliminate this from the tortoise world / population i hate to think how bad next year is going to be since this seems to get worse every year now and more widespread even now among other breeds.
 
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mastershake

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here is one of the positive results from one with the yellow plaques vs the more bump like spots 9ab183db-43ee-4aa9-a579-26caf1f94e93 (1).jpg
 

fernando7kose

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im not sure why this site doesnt notify me when im tagged i do have notifications turned on. maybe a mod can check that for me somehow?

but im so sorry that does look like a case of aw. there are 2 general ways this looks one is the yellow-white ish bumps or blister like spots. then there is this way with the yellow plaques. this way seems to sadly be the worse of the two and seems to be a much faster progression of the austwickia. along with the toe nail loss and the skin issues im afraid this is pretty much 100% (imo) austwickia.

i would def have responded sooner.

we now have confirmation this has been positive in other species, leopards. red foot, russians, greeks, aldabra etc

no it is not contagious to humans but it is HIGHLY contagious to all other species of reptiles.

typically there is no way to sterilize everything. the best this is to replace anything you can. we have seen people try to sterilize only to have the next ones placed into the enclosure end up with the same thing weeks to months later. we generally recc to people to properly dispose of or even burn things that have come into contact with this. its sad but this seems here to stay now and i dont think at this point there is any way to eliminate this from the tortoise world / population i hate to think how bad next year is going to be since this seems to get worse every year now and more widespread even now among other breeds.
here is one of the positive results from one with the yellow plaques vs the more bump like spots View attachment 349298
Thank you so much for the reply.
I was considering to have an adult tortoise after this, since I really enjoyed my time taking care of my baby sulcata.
But after you said that it's also happening to other species, I don't think it's a good idea to bring home a new tortoise at least for this year.

I will make sure to dispose everything properly.
Do you have any suggestion to at least make my baby sulcata more comfortable?
I'm giving him daily soak of baby carrot & I'm letting him roam outside more.
 
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