Baby Sulcata Help - Beak Deformation

[TheDukeAnumber1]

My wife and I purchased a baby sulcata about 9 months ago from a local pet shop and named him Bowser. We suspect Bowser was a few months old when we bought him/her. Everything is good except for Bowsers beak seems to be developing a deformation and it really has me worried. In the attached pictures you can see in each corner of his jaw there are gaps that weren't there in the earliest picture we have of him. The gap doesn't seem like it's causing him any issues eating, he is usually very active especially when we bring him outside, and he has a healthy appetite.

I've lurked around here for a while now and figure you'd want to know Bowser's current care. He is housed in a 2'x 4' tortoise table I build with reptile safe bark as a substrate. I use a temp gun to monitor his temp and he has access to areas where he can warm up to 90 or cool to 70 if he wants. I have a UVB bulb on about 12 hrs a day and we get him out into the sun a few days a week. We have 2'x 4' outdoor enclosure for him too but won't let him sleep outside just yet. He gets soaked usually twice but at lease once a day for about 20min. I feed him daily a mash of 45% grassland, 45% mazuri LS, 10% flukers. About once a week he gets a treat of romaine or some strawberry. A few times a week his food is supplemented with calcium w/ D3 and flukers multi-vitamin.

I'm worried for my tort and haven't been able to find this problem anywhere else. He seems healthy otherwise so I wonder if it isn't genetic but I want to be sure I'm not doing this to him.

Thanks,
Kyle

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Kyle, and welcome to the Forum!

Well, that certainly would be something to worry about. I don't know what is causing it, but I do know you need to get it under control.

What makes the nails, beak and shell strong is calcium and vitamin d3. One would think that those manufactured diets would contain all the nutrients required for healthy growth. How about using them more as a supplement, and going with real greens, weeds and grasses as the main diet? There are several things you can find in a produce market - escarole, endive, turnip greens, dandelion greens (chicory), etc. You aren't limited to only romaine or mfg diet. You can also use the packaged salads that contain a large variety of different greens.

Do you have a good tortoise vet in your city? It might be a good idea to get some help with this.

 

[StarSapphire22]

I would guess the mash as well. Other than a possible lack of nutrients, it isn't allowing him to exercise his jaw like he would if he was ripping up grass and leaves.

Leafy greens, weeds, and grasses should also be a part of his diet.

 

[StarSapphire22]

Here is a list of appropriate foods:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[sibi]

Hi and welcome. Your baby should be seen by a specialist in tortoise care. But, Yvonne hit it right on the head. By using supplement calcium, and getting him outside in the sun for at least an hour daily, you may improve the situation. Are you giving him daily warm soaks? Your baby looks a bit dry. He
should have been given warm soaks once or twice daily for about 20 minutes, if he wasn't. You can still give him warm soaks daily; it's not to late. He's developing a little pyramiding. You would want to prevent further damage by providing a humid environment as well as daily soaks.

We have a member here named Tom who has a great deal of experience with sulcatas. You can find his care sheets on this forum.

 

[Tom]

That is an unusual problem. I have not encountered that before, but I have also not encountered anyone feeding a diet like you either. I see a few possible issues. I'll point out the "imperfections" in your care routine and maybe correcting those things will lead to fixing this problem.

1. Number one by far is the diet. Those artificial diets are fine to use as a supplement to a good varied diet, but not as a substitute. Read the link that Jessica posted above for a whole list of things you should be feeding. Yvonne's list is good too, but I prefer high fiber grass, weeds and leaves to the grocery store stuff when I can get it. Skip the fruit entirely, and instead fill his belly with good stuff. You only need to supplement a couple of times a week.

2. Is your table an open table? If yes, then your humidity is going to be much too low for a baby sulcata.

3. Your temps are much too cool. Bump them up about 10 degrees on both sides. Basking should be closer to 100 and the cool end should never drop below 80. Its very hot where they come from all year long and they hatch during the hot humid wet marshy rainy season.

4. With all the sunshine, you really don't need indoor UV. What type are you using? The coil bulbs can damage their eyes.

5. I'd enlarge those enclosures, especially outdoors. 2x4 is okay for a brand new hatchling, but sulcatas need room to roam. Give Bowser some more space.

Love the Snake Pliskin reference.

 

[TheDukeAnumber1]

Thanks for the replies and advice, to answer your questions. I live in a small town about 40mi south of downtown Chicago. I did find a vet that can handle tortoises, it is a haul to the north side and I fear it's expensive aswell, but I did note where it is in case of an emergency. The table is open except for his hide. I have unfortunately been using a compact fluorescent bulb. About once a week we'll let him into our garden instead of the outdoor enclosure and keep an eye on him, Bowser loves it, he'll roam for hours and eat weeds but overall it has been a small part of his diet.

Now moving forward, I do have access to grass clippings and some weeds and I will start to transition him to them and hopefully soon natural grass will be the bulk of his diet and for now no more fruit. I will work on improving the humidity and upping the temperature in his enclosure and will stop using the coiled UVB buld. I do have new questions though.

Because of where I live I will need to keep him indoors a good portion of the year and could definitely use a UVB bulb recommendation that won't damage his eyes. I also won't have access to the grass during this time, is freezing grass clippings for feeding through out the winder a good alternative? Also I'm unsure of how much Calcium to supplement, I've never wanted to over do it so my method has been to just dust the mash and mix it in, and he only eats a portion of the mash, how do you guys measure it out? And finally it's hard for me to quantify exactly how much he eats but I can ballpark how much he poops. Normally during his morning soak he passes between 2-4 "logs", and maybe another 1-2 during the second soak or in his enclosure. Is this the normal amount?

Thanks again,
Kyle

- and ty for getting the Snake Pliskin reference, no one ever does.

 

[ascott]

I think that this guy has bitten down on something that has caused breakage/damage to the beak....could be a stick in the substrate, could be a piece of the commercial food? Does not look like something is "wrong" with the tort but rather an injury...

 

[TheDukeAnumber1]

Bump, just looking for help with the questions I asked in post #7

@ ascott
If it is a beak injury to they heal nicely? I didn't think that could bite down hard enough to damage their own beak.

 

[WillTort2]

Put your finger between the tort and his favorite food. That will help you decide if they can bite hard enough to injure their beak!

JUST KIDDING, Do not feed finger to tort!

I have seen torts chip their beaks before, whether caused by a diet insufficiency or a natural weak spot, I don't know. But their jaws are very strong. I've been nipped a few times by my Russians and I've seen them draw blood by accident. When they're hungry they bite with vigor.

 

[TheDukeAnumber1]

4. With all the sunshine, you really don't need indoor UV. What type are you using? The coil bulbs can damage their eyes.

Bump again, I'm really wondering how the coil bulbs can damage their eyes and what type of bulb you recommend.

Thanks

 

[Levi the Leopard]

UV bulbs that look like long tubes are ok.
MVBs emit UV rays too and look like flood lamps. Both of those bulb types have no known risks to the eyes.

 

[Tom]

All the mechanisms are not know and not all the coil bulbs have been a problem. I have seen many cases in person and many cases here on the forum where those bulbs burn their eyes. There have been all sorts of suggestions and possibilities given to explain the problem, but I know of no definitive answer. I have seen enough damage done to reptiles under them to convince me.

The long tube type florescent bulbs or Mercury Vapor Bulbs are the best UV sources that I have found. There are many options out there, so just make sure you use whatever you get correctly. Please feel free to ask for help once you decide which way to go.

These might help you:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/