baby sulcata is really sick

[mrreptila]

i have had my baby for about two months now at 1st his shell was hard and he was real active. Now he shell is real soft im mean t the point were i can almost see inside of him. Also he wont move and all he does is sleep all day. He does not eat any thing and he never opens his eyes and when he does there is like white slime on it. i haven't seen him poop in about 3 days and when he did poop it was only when i was soaking him. I want to take him to the vet but all i have right now is 80$ and i don't work for another month on less the vet bill was less then 80 then i don't think i can take him. Please some one help all of this started happening after i took him out of the glass tank he was in and put him the big plastic tub which was about 3 weeks ago, because every one told me tanks were bad for tortoises. Now i don't know wat to do oh and the last time i saw he eat was about 3 days ago after i soaked him he opened his eyes and i had to hand feed him then he went back to sleep. today i tried it again but he did not eat he does move some times to get to the heat spot. also i just changed his substrate from organic soil/sand mix to paper damp paper towel to see how that will work out i also soak him every day i do not now what i am doing wrong please some one help me i don't want to lose him.

enclosure specs

3ftx2ftx7in tub
power sun 100wt heat/uvb bulb
damp paper towel for now
shallow water bowl
orchard grass hay on cool side
90-95 on basking spot
80% humidity on cool side
wat i have been feeding him but wont eat
orchard grass hay
lawn grass
Romain lettuce
kale
mustard greens
dandelion greens
red leaf lettuce
butter nut squash
turnip greens
dusted with reptical

 

[Meg90]

How long have you had your bulb? Eventually (like about a year of use) and their UVB output is so low it basically does nothing for the tort...that's the only thing that I personally know of that makes shells soft....

 

[mrreptila]

How long have you had your bulb? Eventually (like about a year of use) and their UVB output is so low it basically does nothing for the tort...that's the only thing that I personally know of that makes shells soft....

i got it the same time i got him so is about 2 months old

 

[Kristina]

How old is the baby exactly?

Some hatchlings do suffer from "failure to thrive." It is a risk associated with trying to replicate nature. Sometimes things do not turn out right.

This is not related directly to changing his housing.

I will be completely honest, from what you have posted it sounds like you are doing things right. Either there is something internal going on that only a vet can diagnose, or it is simply failure to thrive. I do not believe that he is going to make it, especially without a vet.

I think in this case it is some form of Metabolic Bone Disease, especially with the see through shell.

http://home.earthlink.net/~fridjian/id13.html

Kristina

 

[mrreptila]

How old is the baby exactly?

Some hatchlings do suffer from "failure to thrive." It is a risk associated with trying to replicate nature. Sometimes things do not turn out right.

This is not related directly to changing his housing.

I will be completely honest, from what you have posted it sounds like you are doing things right. Either there is something internal going on that only a vet can diagnose, or it is simply failure to thrive. I do not believe that he is going to make it, especially without a vet.

I think in this case it is some form of Metabolic Bone Disease, especially with the see through shell.

http://home.earthlink.net/~fridjian/id13.html

Kristina

the soft shell is not as bad as in the photos in the link you provided his shell is just really soft after he has been some were really wet like when i gave him a humid hide the bottom of his shell was was really soft after he dryed up a bit he was harder then when he was wet but it was still soft also does any one know how mush it would cost to treat him for any thing he might have.

 

[Kristina]

The only way to know is to contact a vet. Prices are set by individual clinics, there is no way that we can predict that.

Kristina

 

[mrreptila]

then i will call them tomorrow i dont want to lose him also from wat i have told you do you think you can tell me wat he might have .

 

[Kristina]

I still think that it is a form of failure to thrive, associated with MBD. He may not be as bad as the link that I posted, but it sounds like he is headed down that road. I may be wrong, I am not a vet, but that is my opinion based on what you have described.

If you read the literature on the link I posted, they make some conjecture on what causes this condition, and it is mainly believed to be a direct result of the care of the parents or something lacking in the diet of the parents. It could be that the mother had insufficient calcium to pass on to him through the yolk. The softness of the shell, the lethargy and the eye issues are all typical signs.

Kristina

 

[mrreptila]

well thanks anyway

 

[Kristina]

Here is another link

http://www.sulcata-station.org/hatchfail.html

 

[mrreptila]

i have read it before i just didnt think my baby i will try to take him to the vet and do wat ever i can to get him better i dont want to lose him

 

[egyptiandan]

From new studies, "failure to thrive" syndrome has been identified as dehydration. Even being not humid enough overnight can bring on dehydration in a hatchling. The dehydration changes how the young tortoise is able to absorb nutrients, especially vitamins and minerals. Thus causing MBD in most hatchlings.
Your sulcata does have MBD. Getting him eating again is going to be key to him surviving. When you soak him, you should be soaking him with a liquid vitamin. I use VitaSol for birds by 8in1. I make the water slightly yellow. You can also mix squash baby food, reptical and water to make it a thin soup that you can soak your sulcata in once a day. This way he gets some food when he drinks.
Has the plastron turned red at all?

Danny

 

[mrreptila]

From new studies, "failure to thrive" syndrome has been identified as dehydration. Even being not humid enough overnight can bring on dehydration in a hatchling. The dehydration changes how the young tortoise is able to absorb nutrients, especially vitamins and minerals. Thus causing MBD in most hatchlings.
Your sulcata does have MBD. Getting him eating again is going to be key to him surviving. When you soak him, you should be soaking him with a liquid vitamin. I use VitaSol for birds by 8in1. I make the water slightly yellow. You can also mix squash baby food, reptical and water to make it a thin soup that you can soak your sulcata in once a day. This way he gets some food when he drinks.
Has the plastron turned red at all?

Danny

il try that and no his plastron has not turned red

 

[Yvonne G]

And don't forget, that metabolic bone disease is VERY painful. A baby suffering from MBD is in such pain that eating is the last thing on its mind. The only thing that YOU can do is follow Danny's advice. If you want your baby to have the best chance to stay alive, you need to get him to a vet. Most vets will take payments.

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I agree, he needs a Vet and like Yvonne says, most will take payments. Where are you located? We can help you find a reptile Vet, you need one right away. Make that soup that Danny described to you, I use strained carrots and add the vitamins and other stuff to it. Soak your baby right away....But you can't put off the Vet visit.

---

Chop up some greens really small and put him in front of them after you soak him. Then take a piece of lettuce leaf and fan his mouth with it. Every time he closes his eyes tap his carapace to wake him up and again wave the green leaf. I do that when I have one that won't eat, I don't give up on trying to make him eat...I tap him so he can't sleep and I keep fanning his face with a leaf. It works pretty good doing that...

 

[dcoolguy68]

The same thing happened to one of my hatchlings, I soaked him constantly but he didn't make it, it all happened right before thanksgiving and the vets i called were all booked until the week after so he died the day before thanksgiving. I hope your tortoise does well with all the advice you've been given. Good Luck

 

[Kristina]

It is not easy to get them to come back once their kidneys shut down and the bone starts to resorb.

I am sorry for your loss.

Kristina

 

[mrreptila]

then what can i do next time to pervent this from happening again if i lose him he was my 1st tort and i dont want it to happen to another one i know alot of people said its not my fault that he got sick buy im so sorry for him i think didnt do my best to care for him and if i get another one i will make sure i have a stable job and save money for the vet

 

[Yvonne G]

If this tortoise should die, just know that you did all you could for him. They aren't all meant to live...that's why the female sulcata lays so many eggs.

The next time you get a tortoise, be sure to have all the supplies before you get the tortoise. Have an inside habitat all set up, and an outside habitat for good weather. Find a good reptile vet before you need one.

Its important that the babies get vit d3 either from the UVB light bulb or from the sun. They need that Vit d3 in order to make their calcium work. If you get another baby, then you want to soak it in either bird vitamin-water or Gerber baby food water. They don't necessarily drink the water, but they do absorb the nutrients through the thin skin on their throat and around the cloaca (under the tail).

I hope your little guy pulls through.

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I am sorry your baby is sick. But you are already talking about getting another one, and that doesn't sit right with me. Before you get another tortoise I think you have some research to do... first...find an easy to care for species. Two, make sure you know all you CAN know about taking care of that species; three... make sure you have all the necessary equipment inside and an outside habitat, four...find a reptile Vet before you get a new tortoise. I don't mean any disrespect or to be mean to you, but I really think you have some work you need to do before you get another tortoise. You need to figure out what killed your tortoise, Too much heat? Too little heat? Lack of soaking? Lack of UVB? Lack of proper food? No variety in the diet? Not enough exercise? There are many variables that only you can know. So before you get another tortoise you need to figure out why this tortoise died.You might consider a box turtle instead, they are very easy keepers. But please remember...those animals are lives that totally depend on us.
Did you make the soup that Danny suggested and soak your tortoise in it today?