Baby turtles/Tortoises less than 4"

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fbsmith3

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I noticed there are Turtles and tortoises being sold that are less than 4". Is it just the law that Pet stores can not sell animals less than 4" or do they just not regulate private and internet sales.

Just curious.
 

dmmj

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well the 4 inch law IMHO is stupid, pointless, and wrong, but a business can't sell them under four inches, breeders can.
 

Kristina

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The law is stupid, but, it does not pertain to hobbyists and breeders, only to pet stores, and is rarely enforced.
 

fbsmith3

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I know it's just Uncle Sam, using a sledge hammer to kill a fly. It had something to do with little kids getting Salmonella.

Since stupid parents see a cute little baby turtle and get it for their their kid and since kids don't wash their hands. Make baby turtles illegal.
 

Kristina

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It isn't just about the hand-washing. Yes, turtles and torts can carry salmonella, but so does your toothbrush, the dirt in your back yard, dog feces, cat feces, bird droppings, your kitchen counters and computer keyboard, and all kinds of things that you come into contact with on a daily basis. There are over 2,000 strains of salmonella. The chances of getting an infection from a tortoise is very, very VERY slim. As long as you keep your tortoise pen clean and wash your hands after handling your tortoise, there really is nothing to be concerned about.

Back in the 70's there was a trend of selling baby Red Eared slider turtles along with these tiny kidney shaped bowls with a plastic palm tree in it for them to live in. Since sliders can grow to be as big as a dinner plate, the enclosures were way too small, and also they were unfiltered, and therefore too dirty to keep the turtles healthy. Because the water was so dirty and the turtles were unhealthy, the situation caused the turtle's immune system to weaken and allowed the salmonella bacteria in the turtle's intestine to multiply like crazy. Because the intestine would become overloaded with the bacteria, they would shed high concentrations of the bacteria in their feces, which then entered the already dirty water. Inevitably, small children would put their hands or the sick little turtle in their mouth, and get a salmonella infection. It caused a pretty big stereotype about turtles and tortoises carrying salmonella and making people sick, and led to the outlawing of sales of turtles/tortoises under 4" as pets. As long as you practice good hygiene and take good care of your pet, there should not be any problems.

Read more: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Do-tortoises-carry-salmonella-answer-inside#ixzz1ZfisTXpo
 

dmmj

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they thought kids would put the turtles in their mouths and get salmonella, well they thought 4 inches was to big to fit into a child's mouth, but as anyone with a child and half an IQ point (which excuses most politicians) knows that kids will touch the turtle not wash their hands and then put their hands in their mouth, I honestly don't know of any child that actually put turtles into their mouths, but hey the government says so so it must be true ( sarcasm for those without my patented sarcasm detector)
 

fbsmith3

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Have you read "Tales of a Four Grade Nothing" Fudge the baby brother ate the main characters turtle.

Just something that poped into my head.

This is how the government works, find a problem, do not fix it just screw it up with some kind of feel good regulations.

When I read that book in fourth grade, I cried so hard, I had a pond in my back yard with Eastern Painted turtles, Spotted turtles and the occasional Box turtle. They were all wild not pets, but I considered them my friends. So when I read that fudge ate "dribble(?)", it really effected me, the teacher never understood.
 

dmmj

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fudge and super fudge
 

fbsmith3

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I grew up on a farm and we had a huge manure pile that ever so often had to be spread out. When we moved the manure, we'd find turtle eggs. I would collect the turtle eggs and put them in a safe location so no wild animals could get them. Then I would return every day to see if they hatched. A lot of the eggs hatched and my mother would warn me about gettign sick fromt he turtles. I never did, of course I live on a farm and washing up was very important or you'd be eating some type of animals poo.
 

dmmj

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fbsmith3 said:
I grew up on a farm and we had a huge manure pile that ever so often had to be spread out. When we moved the manure, we'd find turtle eggs. I would collect the turtle eggs and put them in a safe location so no wild animals could get them. Then I would return every day to see if they hatched. A lot of the eggs hatched and my mother would warn me about gettign sick fromt he turtles. I never did, of course I live on a farm and washing up was very important or you'd be eating some type of animals poo.
What type were they?
And I know of a lot of people here in calif that find babies crawling out of manure piles.
 

fbsmith3

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RE: Baby turtles/Tortoises less than 4"

We had a lot of paint turtle babies, a few spotted turtles and seldomly box turtle babies. Now spotted turtles are extremely rare and box turtles are impossible to find.

My mother says the pond only has paint turtles and a couple of snapping turtles. She had the snapping turtles moved, but they kept coming back. She wanted to kill them, until I told her they keep even bigger snapping turtles away.

As a kid I used to ride a huge snapping turtle, Olde Gruppy, around the pond. He never bit and put up with a lot from me. I used to feed him left-over chicken. Olde Gruppy had a healed over crack on the left front part of his shell. I only "socialized" with him. Olde Gruppy dissappeared around 1990. The current snapping turtles moved in some time in the last 5 years.

If my son did some of the stuff I did as a child, I would be extremly upset.

Now that I think of it, Grumpy was probally eating the baby turtles I was trying to protect. As a kid I never knew turtles eat turtles.

That is just terrible.
 

Kristina

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Eh, it is nature, unfortunately.

The turtles lay the eggs in the manure piles because as the cellulose composts, it generates heat. Makes a nice incubator, lol.
 

mer001

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fbsmith3 said:
I noticed there are Turtles and tortoises being sold that are less than 4". Is it just the law that Pet stores can not sell animals less than 4" or do they just not regulate private and internet sales.

Just curious.

I recently adopted a redfoot from a woman who bought him from a pet store, and he is only 3 in by 2.5in

i dont think it is ever enforced.
 

DesertGrandma

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When I was a child they sold tiny turtles that were painted all over their shells with bright colored paints. Flowers and such. Pretty much like you get your fingernails polished with bright enamels. Kids bought them like crazy. They were about the size of a silver dollar (if anyone remembers them, haha). The turtles always died. It was eventually made illegal to sell painted turtles because the paint was said to suffocate them.
 

fbsmith3

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Well the painted turtles I know, were paited by nature/God. They have red, yellow and orange stripes on their skin and the edge of their shell has beautiful patterns.
 

John

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mer001 said:
fbsmith3 said:
I noticed there are Turtles and tortoises being sold that are less than 4". Is it just the law that Pet stores can not sell animals less than 4" or do they just not regulate private and internet sales.

Just curious.

I recently adopted a redfoot from a woman who bought him from a pet store, and he is only 3 in by 2.5in

i dont think it is ever enforced.
The "four inch rule" is enforced. The sad part is, that the punishment is to kill the animals. So if a pet store is selling 3.5 inch tortoises and gets caught they can recieve a small fine and have ten days to destroy the animals in the presence of a federal game officer, not sure who the winner is supposed to be here.........I know who the losers are though.
 

fbsmith3

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That is awful, now I see why some do not want to enforce it. Those who do enforce it, are probally sadistic.
 

Camelot

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RE: Baby turtles/Tortoises less than 4"

fbsmith3 said:
and box turtles are impossible to find.


Not here in Oklahoma! There's not a day that went by this summer that people weren't swerving all over the country roads to avoid hitting one that was basking in the MIDDLE of the road, unfazed!
 

RoseRose

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That's terrible that the enforcement is to kill the babies!! How cruel. :(

My local reptile pet store has baby tortoises. Lots of sulcatas and a couple of leopards. They're all 2.5" or less. They also have a red foot juvenile that the woman working there said had been there since it was a hatchling.

~Rose
 
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