Back Legs- Highly Concerned with my Baby Russian

[ScStange891]

Hi, All,

I haven't had to post here in some time, as all has been going well, but that unfortunately has seemed to change.

My Russian Tort, Tortellini (Lini for short), about 11 months old, seems to have suddenly started declining.

Last week, I went on vacation all week. I left the tortoise with a trusted friend, and made sure to pack out the tort's food and everything, giving specific instructions on what to do; he was soaked for a half hour daily, and given the food I pre-portioned (escarole, endive, dandelion, some spring mix, etc.).

The thing is, I picked him up today upon my return and immediately I noticed he was lighter. According to the scale he lost 27g in one week (154 to 127) which is INCREDIBLY ALARMING TO ME. Additionally, he seems to struggle moving his back legs (he can move them when being picked up, but he can't walk normal.

I've seen this as a symptom of constipation, but I checked his cloaca, with no blockages to be found.

Any advice on what to do? I have him in a warm soak right now, hoping he pushes something out. Otherwise, I'm going to try to get in touch with a vet.

Thanks.

 

[daniellenc]

Did you talk to your “trusted” friend. Sounds like your tort wasn’t fed. Maybe he’s just dehydrated and needs frequent long soaks for a few days, food, and some vitamin powder. I’d give that a shot and I’m sorry this happened.

 

[ScStange891]

Did you talk to your “trusted” friend. Sounds like your tort wasn’t fed. Maybe he’s just dehydrated and needs frequent long soaks for a few days, food, and some vitamin powder. I’d give that a shot and I’m sorry this happened.

I was sent daily pictures of his dish being filled in the morning. I packed different foods every day, and saw them all, so I'm confident it wasn't that. Additionally, there were poops in every soak except yesterday's.

I'm afraid that maybe the extra mazuri I gave to alleviate travel stress last week, along with the radicchio in his diet gave him extra high protein and created a urate stone. He has one before when he was 3 months old, but he passed it. I'm hoping this is just the case. The back legs being immobile really scares me.

 

[ScStange891]

Quick update... when I rub the “sensitive spot” at the end of the carapace (right over the “bum” where lots of dogs and some torts either love or HATE being rubbed). For the record, he HATES it.

Immediately he starts pushing with all 4 legs, swinging his butt end around town. This isn’t what he usually does though. Usually he tries to run or scramble out of the tub.

I’m wondering now if he could have suffered nerve damage. Still suspect constiption though.

All I know is that he’s in his second one hour soak of the night and he seems completely content. Either dozing off or just chilling. I hate a spot bulb over him so the water stays nice and warm.

 

[Carol S]

Could he possibly have been dropped?

 

[ScStange891]

Could he possibly have been dropped?

I really don’t think so. My friend and his girlfriend who took care are both registered nurses, so at the very least they understand delicacy. I walked them through exactly the routine I performed for him daily.

Even if they did good up, this is one of my closest friends and I would trust him to be honest with me, especially when directly pressed about it, which I have done several times at this point.

I’m wondering if he got bored in his travel enclosure and tried to climb and hurt himself that way.

What gets me the most about this is that I’m a wreck right now but the tortoise is in good spirits despite being a paraplegic.

 

[Minority2]

I really don’t think so. My friend and his girlfriend who took care are both registered nurses, so at the very least they understand delicacy. I walked them through exactly the routine I performed for him daily.

Even if they did good up, this is one of my closest friends and I would trust him to be honest with me, especially when directly pressed about it, which I have done several times at this point.

I’m wondering if he got bored in his travel enclosure and tried to climb and hurt himself that way.

What gets me the most about this is that I’m a wreck right now but the tortoise is in good spirits despite being a paraplegic.

Is your tortoise varied enough to avoid commonly associated with thyroid and bladder/kidney stone issues? Moderation and sparingly type foods should not be given week to week, even if they're not the same type of greens. My guess is that the tortoise is experiencing symptoms similar to gout flares, those attacks would temporarily disable any man, women, and or beast.

You might want to bring your tortoise to an experienced reptile vet just to be sure.

Additional question. How high are the walls to your travel enclosure?

 

[ScStange891]

Is your tortoise varied enough to avoid commonly associated with thyroid and bladder/kidney stone issues? Moderation and sparingly type foods should not be given week to week, even if they're not the same type of greens. My guess is that the tortoise is experiencing symptoms similar to gout flares, those attacks would temporarily disable any man, women, and or beast.

You might want to bring your tortoise to an experienced reptile vet just to be sure.

Additional question. How high are the walls to your travel enclosure?

I've been feeding him according to the Russian Care Sheet on this forum since I had him last November with no such flare ups. I do plan on taking him to a vet though. There's an exotics center not too far from me and I already took tomorrow from work to do such.

As far as the travel enclosure, it's slightly more than a foot high from the top of the substrate to the ceiling, maybe 14 inches? He's only about 3.3 inches long at this point, so nowhere near big enough to climb out or up. If he fell at all, it would've been from one of his decorative hides, and maybe he hit awkwardly.

 

[ScStange891]

Another update: I soaked him for 3 hours cumulatively tonight. He gained 4 grams from literally nothing but soaking, which leads me to believe he is severely dehydrated.

As much as I want to trust my friend... there's NO WAY he kept the humidity at the proper levels. I'll bet he's got the classic combo of impacted/dehydrated.... just wonderful... Luckily I'll be home, so I can give him plenty more soaks, a vet visit, and some Aloe to maybe help move along any blockages.

 

[I_love_tortoises]

Awe I hope he gets better!

 

[ScStange891]

UPDATE:
His appetite came back today, but I didn't let him eat much in case it's a blockage. Don't want sepsis to set in. He refused aloe, so I rubbed his normal food in it and fed. Maybe that will help.

I keep soaking him several times for an hour. Before his latest soak, I put him on the scale and he was already back up to 141 G (he was 127 yesterday, 154 a week ago). Given that he only ate a couple small pieces of escarole, this leads me to believe that he was VERY dehydrated, and that this is the cause of all of these issues.

He's currently resting in his enclosure with the humidity at about 85%. I'll be soaking him again in a little bit, and I have a vet appointment with a herp specialist tomorrow.

 

[ScStange891]

Any weight he put on yesterday from the soaks and light meal, he lost during the night. He went from 154 on 7/26 to 127 on 8/5 to 145 on 8/6 back to 126 today. I’m so puzzled as to what’s going on with my baby.

Well, vet appointment at noon today. Hopefully I get some answers and a solution.

 

[daniellenc]

Is your scale off? That’s a ton of change in too short a time to be accurate. A nickel is 5 grams. Tare your scale and place a nickel on it. If you don’t get 5 grams it’s your scale. I’d do it a few times to be sure.

 

[KarenSoCal]

Please update us on what the vet said. Hoping for the best for your baby!

 

[ScStange891]

Unfortunately he passed away today.

The vet x ray scanned him yesterday and thought he had gas built up in his GI tract and that he didn’t move his legs out of choice to avoid pain. She also saw a slight haziness in his lung and thought it was an RI and prescribed Fortaz and he got his first shot.

In the meantime I switched out his substrate for towels and increased humidity and this morning he seemed mostly better! Moving along with lots of spunk (still no back legs) but he had a tremendous appetite and was wandering and exploring.

Unfortunately I HAD to go into work as I had missed the past few days caring for him. When I came back he was gone. Eyes wide open. Mouth gaping. Limp. Put him in a soak but after 5 minutes nothing, even with his head partly submerged.

Since he’s limp and there is not yet a smell, I will wait the night to “call it” for sure, just to make sure this isn’t like Big Bertha’s story, but in the morning I’m going to freeze the body. I plan on going up to my parents in a more rural area this weekend and burying him.

Thanks everyone for all of your support during our lives here.

 

[KarenSoCal]

Unfortunately he passed away today.

The vet x ray scanned him yesterday and thought he had gas built up in his GI tract and that he didn’t move his legs out of choice to avoid pain. She also saw a slight haziness in his lung and thought it was an RI and prescribed Fortaz and he got his first shot.

In the meantime I switched out his substrate for towels and increased humidity and this morning he seemed mostly better! Moving along with lots of spunk (still no back legs) but he had a tremendous appetite and was wandering and exploring.

Unfortunately I HAD to go into work as I had missed the past few days caring for him. When I came back he was gone. Eyes wide open. Mouth gaping. Limp. Put him in a soak but after 5 minutes nothing, even with his head partly submerged.

Since he’s limp and there is not yet a smell, I will wait the night to “call it” for sure, just to make sure this isn’t like Big Bertha’s story, but in the morning I’m going to freeze the body. I plan on going up to my parents in a more rural area this weekend and burying him.

Thanks everyone for all of your support during our lives here.

Oh no! I am so very very sorry! And it seems there was no definitive diagnosis...how frustrating! It doesn't really help, but at least you know you did what you could for him.

 

[katieandiggy]

You did your best to care for him. Sorry for your loss [emoji170]

 

[ScStange891]

My mistake was the person whose care I left him in on vacation. I think he ignored his humidity needs and that did him in.

 

[Minority2]

My mistake was the person whose care I left him in on vacation. I think he ignored his humidity needs and that did him in.

I would respectfully have to disagree with you on that. Humidity levels for even Hatchling Russians are not nearly as high as other species. It's beneficial but not essential. And even if you do raise their humidity levels you'll have to also be sure to raise their night temperatures so they do not develop respiratory problems from cold damp/wet (room temperature with damp/wet substrate is a bad combination) substrate.

Friends and relatives that are inexperienced with reptiles/tortoises will probably do a sub par job of babysitting at best. Notes and visual instructions will only go so far. I don't think it would be right to assume the worst about your friend without getting more information from him about what went on during your vacation. What he did do and what he might have missed.

Gas buildup in the intestines is usually a common symptom of diet, possible impaction, and lack of UVB exposure. These issues may have possibly been building up for some time.

 

[ScStange891]

I would respectfully have to disagree with you on that. Humidity levels for even Hatchling Russians are not nearly as high as other species. It's beneficial but not essential. And even if you do raise their humidity levels you'll have to also be sure to raise their night temperatures so they do not develop respiratory problems from cold damp/wet (room temperature with damp/wet substrate is a bad combination) substrate.

Friends and relatives that are inexperienced with reptiles/tortoises will probably do a sub par job of babysitting at best. Notes and visual instructions will only go so far. I don't think it would be right to assume the worst about your friend without getting more information from him about what went on during your vacation. What he did do and what he might have missed.

Gas buildup in the intestines is usually a common symptom of diet, possible impaction, and lack of UVB exposure. These issues may have possibly been building up for some time.

The X-ray all but ruled out impaction, and his diet was explicitly ripped from the Russian tortoise care sheet on this forum.

As far as UVB light, he had a 10.0 tube bulb switched out every 6 months and was getting some natural sunlight in the summer months. I do believe that this was building for some time however.