Bill Zovickian's TRUE Radiated Bloodline

Radnoisseur

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Hi,

I really hope this could be a sticky because I feel it is very important for Rad keepers/breeders/enthusiast who cares about bloodline and quality or about to spend some serious $$$$ on sellers claiming theirs are from Bill's.

I've chatted with over a couple dozen keepers/breeders up to date from different parts of the states and one thing I find interesting is if these are not legal to travel across state lines, how do we have many folks in the west coast claiming theirs are from Bill Zovickian? 🤔

Lots of photos gets saved or shared showing or claiming certain so and so are of his bloodline but with no email, DM or any means of reaching out to Bill for validation how do we really know?

I've had a couple of run-ins with some breeders claiming theirs are his and I didn't buy it, but there are those out there using Bill's name to their advantage to ask more for what they are selling, and I am also very certain some suckers will pay the price for that.

If you see these 2 thread, his bloodline only went to NY or FL so only in the east coast...

https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/breeding-high-yellow-radiates.142563/post-1760714 and https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/breeding-high-yellow-radiates.142563/post-1831630

Bill, would you care to chime in to give us just the first names of who bought your stock and from where back in 2018/2019? At least we all will have a lead somewhere with that but if you rather not say guess we'll all just have to play "the guessing game". 😅
 

jaizei

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Hi,

I really hope this could be a sticky because I feel it is very important for Rad keepers/breeders/enthusiast who cares about bloodline and quality or about to spend some serious $$$$ on sellers claiming theirs are from Bill's.

I've chatted with over a couple dozen keepers/breeders up to date from different parts of the states and one thing I find interesting is if these are not legal to travel across state lines, how do we have many folks in the west coast claiming theirs are from Bill Zovickian? 🤔

Lots of photos gets saved or shared showing or claiming certain so and so are of his bloodline but with no email, DM or any means of reaching out to Bill for validation how do we really know?

I've had a couple of run-ins with some breeders claiming theirs are his and I didn't buy it, but there are those out there using Bill's name to their advantage to ask more for what they are selling, and I am also very certain some suckers will pay the price for that.

If you see these 2 thread, his bloodline only went to NY or FL so only in the east coast...

https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/breeding-high-yellow-radiates.142563/post-1760714 and https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/breeding-high-yellow-radiates.142563/post-1831630

Bill, would you care to chime in to give us just the first names of who bought your stock and from where back in 2018/2019? At least we all will have a lead somewhere with that but if you rather not say guess we'll all just have to play "the guessing game". 😅


Presumably, some of those could have bought from Bill (or from someone Bill sold to) back when it was easier/possible to get the CBW permits.
 

wellington

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Presumably, some of those could have bought from Bill (or from someone Bill sold to) back when it was easier/possible to get the CBW permits.
I thought even with a permit, they couldn't be sold across state lines?
 

Tom

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... these are not legal to travel across state lines...
That is incorrect. Its perfectly legal to travel them across state lines and possess them in any state.

Specifically, it is illegal to SELL them across state lines. There can be no commerce of any kind. They can be legally given away for free across state lines, sent on breeding loans, or you can move to another state and take your tortoises with you.

Just a few years ago, people could apply for and get a CBW license. With a license on the seller's end and one on the buyer's end, it was legal to sell across state lines. An animal rights whacko got appointed to that government office and now no one can get the permit. Prior to that many of them were shipped back and forth across the country.

Dr. Zovikian has been breeding them since the 60's, so it is certainly possible that people are telling the truth. I'll bet almost all of them can be traced back to him at some point.
 

Radnoisseur

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Tom, you got me! Kind of. I didn't elaborate in the OP about the traveling part because it is assumed that any responsible breeder would card/id the buyer to make sure they are a legal resident of that state. I wouldn't mind flying to Texas to purchase some super high end ones for example and drive them back, but the few reputable breeders from there that I've talked to requires proof of legal residence before selling so that wouldn't give me any chance of getting them.

Anyhow, my main point is sure, they could be "related" a few generations ago but all that gets very vague. Who still actually has his bloodline up to date is still something of the unknown thus it feels like anyone could just throw it out there to fetch a higher price.

Regarding the CBW I remember reading on some group chat or forum that it is a scam since Covid. They'll happily take your money with the application and you'll never hear from them again.
 

Tom

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Anyhow, my main point is sure, they could be "related" a few generations ago but all that gets very vague. Who still actually has his bloodline up to date is still something of the unknown thus it feels like anyone could just throw it out there to fetch a higher price.
I get your point that nefarious people could falsely use a good man's name to fetch a higher price, but my main point is that for longer than I have been alive, Dr. Zovickian has been producing babies and selling them all over the country. I don't know why you would think they could only be in NY or FL. He lives in GA now, used to live in CT, and his offspring have been sold all over the country for many decades. Its only in recent years that we haven't been able to legally sell them across state lines. Prior to that anyone in any state could apply for and get the license. In the early days, no license was even needed.

I would love to receive a history lesson here about all this from @zovick himself.
 

zovick

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I get your point that nefarious people could falsely use a good man's name to fetch a higher price, but my main point is that for longer than I have been alive, Dr. Zovickian has been producing babies and selling them all over the country. I don't know why you would think they could only be in NY or FL. He lives in GA now, used to live in CT, and his offspring have been sold all over the country for many decades. Its only in recent years that we haven't been able to legally sell them across state lines. Prior to that anyone in any state could apply for and get the license. In the early days, no license was even needed.

I would love to receive a history lesson here about all this from @zovick himself.
@Tom @TommyTheV

I am up in CT working in my previous dental practice this week, so my time is limited, but I will try to address the pertinent points.

First, I had a CBW Permit continuously from virtually the first year they became required around 1977 or 1978 until 2019 when I let it expire. Many people were able to get them prior to 2015, and I sold numerous babies to CA buyers in the 1980's. The out of state sales continued through the years right up till the permits became hard to obtain around 2015.

The people who bought from me in the early days have all began producing their own offspring in the 1990's and 2000's. These people are from CA (Eric), TX (Tom, Ben), and FL (John). Somewhat later buyers from NY (Dan) and FL (Sean, Evan, and another John) have also begun their own production lines using tortoise from me.

In short, it is very hard to say what animal(s) could be from my bloodlines today. Many of them could be, however, the highest likelihoods would be from the people who bought adults from me. Their first names would be: Tom and Ben in TX, two Johns, Sean, and Evan in FL, Derek in GA, Dan in NY, and Eric in CA. All of Eric's tortoises are at the Behler Center in Ojai.
 

zovick

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@Tom @TommyTheV

I am up in CT working in my previous dental practice this week, so my time is limited, but I will try to address the pertinent points.

First, I had a CBW Permit continuously from virtually the first year they became required around 1977 or 1978 until 2019 when I let it expire. Many people were able to get them prior to 2015, and I sold numerous babies to CA buyers in the 1980's. The out of state sales continued through the years right up till the permits became hard to obtain around 2015.

The people who bought from me in the early days have all began producing their own offspring in the 1990's and 2000's. These people are from CA (Eric), TX (Tom, Ben), and FL (John). Somewhat later buyers from NY (Dan) and FL (Sean, Evan, and another John) have also begun their own production lines using tortoise from me.

In short, it is very hard to say what animal(s) could be from my bloodlines today. Many of them could be, however, the highest likelihoods would be from the people who bought adults from me. Their first names would be: Tom and Ben in TX, two Johns, Sean, and Evan in FL, Derek in GA, Dan in NY, and Eric in CA. All of Eric's tortoises are at the Behler Center in Ojai.
Continuing the above post, I had one buyer from CA who purchased about 10-12 babies from me in the mid-1980's. He later bought several adults from me as well.

A well-known dealer from CA also bought about 6 or 8 adults from me in the 1990's. He sold those adults to his customers rather than keeping them, so it is hard to say where they went after he received them.

A buyer from NY bought 14 babies from me in the early to mid-1990's. All of them would now be old enough to be producing their own offspring. I think he resold them all and don't believe he kept any for himself.

As I see it, the "purest" of my high yellow bloodlines would have to be from Sean, followed by the two Johns and Evan in FL, Tom in TX, and Dan in NY.
 

Tom

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Continuing the above post, I had one buyer from CA who purchased about 10-12 babies from me in the mid-1980's. He later bought several adults from me as well.

A well-known dealer from CA also bought about 6 or 8 adults from me in the 1990's. He sold those adults to his customers rather than keeping them, so it is hard to say where they went after he received them.

A buyer from NY bought 14 babies from me in the early to mid-1990's. All of them would now be old enough to be producing their own offspring. I think he resold them all and don't believe he kept any for himself.

As I see it, the "purest" of my high yellow bloodlines would have to be from Sean, followed by the two Johns and Evan in FL, Tom in TX, and Dan in NY.
Thank you for sharing this with us.
 

Radnoisseur

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@Tom @TommyTheV

I am up in CT working in my previous dental practice this week, so my time is limited, but I will try to address the pertinent points.

First, I had a CBW Permit continuously from virtually the first year they became required around 1977 or 1978 until 2019 when I let it expire. Many people were able to get them prior to 2015, and I sold numerous babies to CA buyers in the 1980's. The out of state sales continued through the years right up till the permits became hard to obtain around 2015.

The people who bought from me in the early days have all began producing their own offspring in the 1990's and 2000's. These people are from CA (Eric), TX (Tom, Ben), and FL (John). Somewhat later buyers from NY (Dan) and FL (Sean, Evan, and another John) have also begun their own production lines using tortoise from me.

In short, it is very hard to say what animal(s) could be from my bloodlines today. Many of them could be, however, the highest likelihoods would be from the people who bought adults from me. Their first names would be: Tom and Ben in TX, two Johns, Sean, and Evan in FL, Derek in GA, Dan in NY, and Eric in CA. All of Eric's tortoises are at the Behler Center in Ojai.

Thanks for chiming in Dr @zovick Appreciate this history lesson.

Hopefully this will be valuable information for those in search of your high quality strains.
 
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