Blackfish the documentary on Sea World tonight at 6 and 9
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Supporting Animal Rightists in any way, shape or form is NOT good for animals or people who keep them.
So supporting Sea World with a hell of a lot of money each year is better?
Not that I'm a fan of PETA and the like, but Sea World with all its advertising etc. is basically propaganda as well for its own cause. So two agendas, but ignoring both sides' propaganda, can you really say these animals are better off in captivity?
There is a difference between the proportional size that your Russians in their 'at least an 8X4 ft enclosure' get, and some huge whales, not to mention the difference in intelligence. Their is a huge difference between small reptiles, and large mammals or cetaceans.
For anyone looking for truth and information on orcas, this is one of the best sites. They send me updates and pictures everyday of orcas in the wild and how they thrive. In fact, there are a couple of new babies that have been born. They are adorable out there with their mothers. I love reading about all of them and the people who protect them. You can also sign up for their website and get updates and see how they actually live and thrive in the wild. You can also go there and see how many orcas have died in Sea Worlds care. It's the people who speak up that will eventually get these orcas back to the wild where they belong so don't let anyone try to tell you differently. as they have their own agenda and it's not usually for the good of the animal.
https://theorcaproject.wordpress.com/killer-whale-orca-marine-parks/seaworld/
https://theorcaproject.wordpress.com/killer-whale-orca-marine-parks/seaworld/
https://www.thedodo.com/jurassic-wo...ld-tweets-1202373428.html?utm_source=BfishFB2
The film has already drawn some tongue-in-cheek comparisons to “Blackfish,” the controversial 2013 documentary that reported disturbing allegations about how marine parks treat their animals, not to mention the deaths of trainers. When the “Jurassic World” trailer was released, some immediately pointed out that the set looked suspiciously like a SeaWorld show, as an enormous mosasaurus leaps out of the water and eats a shark dangling from a hook. There’s a splash zone and everything. Turns out, the tonal similarities between the film are no accident.
“Yeah, there’s a bit of a [‘Blackfish’] vibe to this story,” “Jurassic World” director Colin Trevorrow told Slashfilm. He compared the movie’s havoc-wreaking Indominus rex to a creature that grew up in a SeaWorld-type environment. “Our new dinosaur…is kind of out killing for sport because it grew up in captivity,” Trevorrow said. “It’s sort of, like, if the black fish orca got loose and never knew its mother and has been fed from a crane.”
That’s exactly what happens in “Jurassic World,” as the Indominus rex escapes from a life of isolation and proceeds to test its boundaries and food-chain order by killing everything in sight. The idea of captured animals is brought up again and again, particularly by Owen (Chris Pratt), the ex-military dino expert brought in to help train the velociraptors. He is consistently stunned and offended by the arrogance of people like Claire (Bryce Dallas Howard), the park’s operations manager who treats the animals like property created in a lab.
The film has already drawn some tongue-in-cheek comparisons to “Blackfish,” the controversial 2013 documentary that reported disturbing allegations about how marine parks treat their animals, not to mention the deaths of trainers. When the “Jurassic World” trailer was released, some immediately pointed out that the set looked suspiciously like a SeaWorld show, as an enormous mosasaurus leaps out of the water and eats a shark dangling from a hook. There’s a splash zone and everything. Turns out, the tonal similarities between the film are no accident.
“Yeah, there’s a bit of a [‘Blackfish’] vibe to this story,” “Jurassic World” director Colin Trevorrow told Slashfilm. He compared the movie’s havoc-wreaking Indominus rex to a creature that grew up in a SeaWorld-type environment. “Our new dinosaur…is kind of out killing for sport because it grew up in captivity,” Trevorrow said. “It’s sort of, like, if the black fish orca got loose and never knew its mother and has been fed from a crane.”
That’s exactly what happens in “Jurassic World,” as the Indominus rex escapes from a life of isolation and proceeds to test its boundaries and food-chain order by killing everything in sight. The idea of captured animals is brought up again and again, particularly by Owen (Chris Pratt), the ex-military dino expert brought in to help train the velociraptors. He is consistently stunned and offended by the arrogance of people like Claire (Bryce Dallas Howard), the park’s operations manager who treats the animals like property created in a lab.
I'll never get it Candy. This world is never going to change. People will always suck. Intelligent people condoning this is way beyond my comprehension.
Anything and everything is better than supporting animal killing, lying, rights destroying terrorists.
Understand that these groups do not want you or anyone else to have pets, they kill more dogs in THEIR shelter than local county shelters, and are defined by the FBI as a terrorist group. They manipulate children and hand out pamphlets with horror movie style depictions to children in an attempt to turn children against their parents for eating fish and chicken.
I am all for animal welfare, housing animals well and offering good captive conditions. I am against assigning the same rights to animals as are extended to human beings. I am against terrorists and liars. I'm against people who attempt to turn innocent children against their parents to further their political agenda. I am against people who want to tell me I can't have a pet tortoise.
Just an add-on......This is my personal opinion and I respect most people's opinions, and just ask the same. When you post something like this on this (or any other) forum, sometimes some bashing goes on. Scary!
I can't talk about PETA....too many pro's and con's. I guess we just have to keep in mind that there are lunatic's in every organization, and good people too. I would never generalize any organization. Also...there is a BIG difference in keeping Orca's in a little tank that can become dangerous and kill people and keeping a tortoise.. I've never heard of a tortoise that killed anyone in captivity.
Huge generalisation again about conservationists and people who stick up for animal rights. Sure, there are bad groups, we have a very manipulative group against reptiles in the UK called the APA, -and those are generally the ones who get the attention- but there are also plenty of good groups. For instance, I believe you are very good friends with Tomas at the African Chelonia Institute? Is that not a conservation organisation?
Who exactly are you talking about with this 'animal killing'? Most shelters do good work, I know some dog shelters in the States have a bad reputation for putting healthy animals down, but even in the US, that is a small amount. I'm guessing the terrorist group is PETA, correct? Yes, they are not good e.g. ruined the Nazca Lines recently, but I wouldn't take the FBI's terrorist list too literally, there are(and have been) some interesting names on there...
I am vegetarian; is that the product of propaganda? Yes, it probably is, but there is a whole lot more 'eat meat( or fish)' 'propaganda' out there than 'don't eat meat'. If every animal was farmed with a good quality of life, fine, but that doesn't happen here in the EU with a pretty comprehensive legislation list(which puts up food prices), yet alone countries with much worse welfare acts for farm animals.
We are, as a world, still a hell of a long way off granting human rights to animals-don't worry there, it won't happen anytime soon...
But what you appear to be saying is that anyone who utters the words 'animal rights' is a terrorist or liar if they want them to have a standard of living similar to humans? That seems a bit strong to me. There is more evidence that worldwide animal conditions-farming, entertainment etc.- are detrimental for the animals, which leads to the question, who is lying? Sure, PETA are, but what about people who want animals to have space, to have food which doesn't involve them being a cannibal?
Sea World do a lot more to manipulate parents through advertising to children than the animal rights group, in a similar way that McDonalds do actually, to go back to farming. Propaganda is employed much more by the pro-captive supporters than the antis, as they are often referred to...
Finally, nobody here is against pet tortoises in the right conditions, but that is a different case, and while I do believe most enclosures-off forum, of course- are too small, they have a lot more proportional space, while being much less intelligent animals. There is a difference between tortoises and cetaceans, and I feel like you have missed that point in this discussion, and ones we have had on a similar subject before.
ALL animal rights groups are bad. They purposefully confuse the issue of animal rights and animal welfare. They dupe nice people with good intentions toward animals into giving them money to use for political and nefarious purposes.
The animal rights run shelters have a dismal record for killing animals and refusing adoptions.
I don't know why you wouldn't take the FBIs list seriously. I do.
About Sea World. I know of no other organization in the entire world that has done more to educate people and engender a love of the ocean, and all its creatures. They've done this for generations. They did it with ME! We want to throw this organization under the bus because some people think the pools are too small for the killer whales. Or @terryo , our definition of which animals are allowed in captivity depends on which ones can kill people? That's not how I choose to decide this issue.
How about instead of condemning an entire group that employs thousands of people who love animals and are dedicated to conservation and eduction, we instead try to get them to make the pools bigger and better?
And Tomas? I have no problem conservation. I participate in it myself. Conservation and animal rights are two different things, just as protecting wild animals in the wild and banning peoples CB pets are tow different things.
Did I miss any points?
The animal rights-conservationist group is a very fine line, but I can simply not accept that ALL animal right groups are bad.
The RSPCA for instance in the UK was set up for the welfare of animals here, and yes they know nothing about tortoises, but it would be very rare to have a healthy animal put down. While I'm sure there are exceptions, I highly doubt that the overall shelter record in The States is 'dismal'.What about private rescue organisations? We have a few for tortoises on this forum...
Not saying I don't take it seriously, but the FBI has had some interesting names on that list.
Maybe so, and they are using money from the entertainment for this, but little research NOW is being done into them by Sea World, the money would be better spent with a number of smaller, specialised organisations that at the end of the day don't have a very large tax bill to pay for their revenue. You yourself specifically discourage people keeping tortoises in small enclosures, is an orca any different?
They might be starting a love for orcas with some little kids-note to self, nice propaganda btw-, but that is for an orca in captivity, which is not where they should be, not at least until as you said the pools are 'better', and much 'better'. And realistically, an adequate enclosure would require a phenomenal amount of space and money.
Again, you're getting hung up on the tortoise point. Tortoises and orcas are not the same, not at all really...
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Oh this hurts my heart. There are so many LIES in this video :-( they don't "collect" whales from the wild: false, Morgan was "rescued" from the wild under the conditions that she be released. Years later she lives at Loro Parque which is connected to Seaworld.
So many of their whales have dental problems and are on antidepressants. Sad. I'm not saying shut Seaworld down, but the pools ARE too small and the animals do deserve better
I don't find the line between conservation/welfare and "rights" to be fine at all. I find the gap between the two points of view as broad as a continent. Taking good care of animals is one thing. Assigning them rights that make them equal to humans is so so different. Catching, killing and eating a trout or a chicken is NOT murder and never will be, but that is what the animal rights groups advocate. TOTALLY different than encouraging people to take good care of their animals.
Kill ratios are horrendous for the PETA and HSUS shelters. This is not my opinion. This is documented fact. I'm terrible at searching and citing, but it is there if someone wishes to look for it.
There is no difference to me between keeping an Orca in captivity and a tortoise. None. Do I want want it done right in both cases? Yes. Absolutely. To use your example, when someone comes on this forum and their tortoise is in too small of an enclosure, I attempt to educate them and encourage them to go bigger and better. I DON'T want them to be banned from the forum, to lose their job, to be publicly disgraced and accused of all sorts of animal abuse, to be banned from owning tortoises and I certainly don't ignore all the good things this person might contribute to the world. Same with Sea World.
About this point specifically, you are so wrong. Did you happen to go to Sea World as a child? Did you grow up a couple of hours from there and get to go once or twice a year? No? Then how do you know what effect this has on a child? How do you know how they view what they have seen?
Speaking from personal experience, first hand experience, I did not fall in love with only captive orcas. I fell in love with a species because I got to see them right there in front of me in the flesh. I got to touch them, smell them, feed them, and watch them. Same as any other species. Didn't matter that they were in a cage, pool, enclosure, zoo or at Sea World. As a child I understood how they lived in the wild because Sea World took the time to educate me. I would not have a clue about their plight otherwise. I saw lots of other animals on TV. I've always enjoyed watching nature programs, even as a child. I saw bears, eagles, big cats, wolves... All sorts of cool stuff, but I had no personal connection the any of them. I had no way to look them in the eye and have them look back. As a result, while I liked all those other animals and thought they were cool, I felt they were something far removed and foreign. But not Shamu. I KNEW Shamu. Shamu was like a childhood hero to me and millions of other kids. Sea World is directly responsible for making that connection to killer whales and the ocean in general. It formed who I was and who I became. Sea world is the reason I went into Marine Biology. Sea World is the reason I started snorkeling at age 13 and got SCUBA certified at age 18.
For people to attempt to destroy such an amazing, beneficial educator of ignorant far removed children is abhorrent to me. Its despicable.
Propaganda? I can't understand why you would choose that word. They had animals on display with educational placards and entertaining, but educational shows. What better way to highlight the wonders of the sea? Most kids, like me, were poor and growing up surrounded by concrete. Nature and the wild was a very very foreign place back there. A several generations of Americans would be a heck of a lot more ignorant about life in the sea were it not for Sea World. They are not villains and propagandists. They make a beneficial difference in the lives millions and millions of children.
That's the thing Terry, I have to question the intelligence of anyone who thinks that putting an orca into captivity is not for pure entertainment. The money they bring in is also a reason. A very selfish reason might I add. That's why Sea World doesn't want to give them up. Sea World is losing big time now and that's exactly what should happen. Tilikum is not doing well. He sits in his small tank day after day not moving a lot of the time. In the wild this is not how they behave. I am doing my part in educating everyone that I come in contact with about the orcas and dolpins that are held in captivity. It is wrong to do this to these animals. I ask people to please watch Blackfish as it is based only on factual evidence. I tell people, if after watching this educational documentary you want to go back to Sea World, then I can't stop you. I haven't had one person come back after watching it that said they would visit Sea World again. They tell me the opposite and they start advocating themselves and that is exactly what I want to see. These animals cannot speak for themselves so it's up to us to lend them our voices and our time. If you have not watched Blackfish please do and get the facts about this cruel industry.
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. I brought my kids to see the Orca's. I sat there and explained to them why I took them. I wanted them to know how sad it was that people were making so much money while these animals suffered. I'm not an educated person, but I explained to them the best I could why I was against this and asked them to do some research and form their own opinion. I also brought them to our local zoo, which is the worst zoo I have seen to try and educate them on how NOT to keep an animal. They aren't children any more, they are men now, and they do the same with their children. I remember when we left the Staten Island Zoo, we were all crying and no one wanted to go eat lunch. Years later, my kids still talk about the lion that went around, and around in a circle and banged his head against the wall. I recently went back to that zoo and nothing has changed, and apparently nothing has changed at sea world either. I really don't understand when I see kids sitting with their parents laughing and watching while this huge animal goes around and around and no one is telling their kids this is wrong. Everyone has a different opinion, and I respect that, but this is just my thoughts.
I think what you did is wonderful Terry. I wish others would do the same. I don't understand zoos. It seems so inhumane to keep an animal behind bars. If this was the only way that I could teach my children about animals I think I would rather not teach them. My oldest son had told me how he went with a friend to the zoo and would never go back. He said that it was so sad seeing all of those animals in cages and that he couldn't understand what kind of education people got from that. He said it depressed him and that he had decided never to go again. I was so happy to hear that and now he helps me as an advocate for the orcas and dolphins. He has been to some of the protests and helps put the information out there to the ones who don't know the facts yet. I am so proud that he's found his humane side. I love men that support animal rights. Thank you Terry for teaching your children humanity.
Anyone who advocates for animal rights should not be keeping pets.
What is the term for someone who advocates against something, but then does it themselves anyway?
What is the term for someone who advocates against something, but then does it themselves anyway?
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