Bleeding Spot on Bottom of Fred's Shell

[Deaf Paul]

Fred is a 11-year-old rescue tortoise from New York. When he arrived in Hawaii, he had an odd spot about the size of a dime on the bottom of his shell towards the back. The shell was discolored, was flaking a bit. I cleaned it up, scraped away the loose flakes, applied neosporin a few times over the next two months (in retrospect, might not have been the smartest thing to do as I don't know if neosporin is harmful to a tort). It didn't improve but didn't get worse so I left it at that and let nature take it's course.

Last night at 2 AM, my wife woke me up to let me know it was storming outside and she was worried that Fred's burrow would get flooded as it's gotten somewhat full of water a few times in the past during extremely heavy rains. So I crawl through the trees in the mud and pull him out (still nice and dry - the rains had just started pouring). I wrestled him out and then tipped him over to wash him off before bringing him into the house (have newborn triplets, white carpeting, etc) and noticed that the old spot had fresh blood coming out of it. Very little, but fresh blood nevertheless.

Thoughts? Shell disease of some sort? Any kind of medication I can, or should be giving him or applying to the wound?

-Paul

 

[coreyc]

Can you post a pic of the spot ?

 

[Deaf Paul]

Additional info: He is about 35 pounds, has pyramiding, he eats lawn grass and 1-2 large boxes of organic spring mix per month from Costco that is supplemented with calcium (no d3) because Hawaii dirt does not have calcium in it so the grasses here are completely devoid of that. He is passing feces and urates as usual, and eats almost the entire day. He gets a lot of natural sunlight, has a 3 inch deep watering tray that is recessed into the back patio. The unusual thing about him is that he will sometimes manage to get into the house when the back door is left open and he usually goes straight to the dog's water bowl and drinks from that. Why he doesn't use his wading pool (which is changed out every few days) is beyond me. I've only seen him drink from it twice, and never wade in it. I've had him for about 10 months now. He's my third sulcata.

-Paul

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Will need to take, download, upload and post... Will try to do so this weekend.

 

[John]

where in hawaii are you?

 

[yagyujubei]

It sounds to me like it COULD be shell rot. If it is , it's probably fungal. If you could post a good pic, I'm sure someone can identify.

 

[Deaf Paul]

Fred and I are on the island of Oahu in Hawaii Kai (southeast corner). Our backyard is next to the canals connecting to the ocean in case that might have something to do with his shell. His burrow is literally 5 or 6 feet away from the salt water, but 4 feet elevated (fenced).

-Paul

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I have never heard of shell rot bleeding. Could you have scraped it pulling him out of his burrow? Like scrapping off a scab? Maybe that spot is thinner then the rest and you scraped it against a rock or something? I wish I could help more. Take a picture for us, that would help a lot.

 

[Livingstone]

I would schedule a vet visit as well.

 

[motero]

Is it right where the plates all join together, Where the yolk sack would have been a long time ago?

 

[Deaf Paul]

Photos as promised...

I observed clear fluid (pus or plasma blood?) coming out as well.

No, it's not at a main plate joint, and it's slightly off-center.

It's possible it got scrapped as I pulled him out, but the bottom of his burrow is pretty much dirt/dry turtle waste and looks quite soft/cushioned. Nevertheless, it's always been a discolored spot that had shell flaking and dark discoloration.

-Paul

 

[Livingstone]

What is the density of the spot? Are you sure its his shell? It almost looks like a foreign object has been lodged in the shell and the shell is growing around it.

 

[egyptiandan]

It's definately infected. You need to flush the area with a saline solution and apply a triple antibiotic ointment and keep him/her warm and dry. Than make a vet appointment ASAP as you will need to give a course of antibiotics to get rid of this infection.

Danny

 

[Deaf Paul]

It's definately infected. You need to flush the area with a saline solution and apply a triple antibiotic ointment and keep him/her warm and dry. Than make a vet appointment ASAP as you will need to give a course of antibiotics to get rid of this infection.

Danny

I could not see any foreign objects there - just discoloration and flaking of the shell which has always been there and occurring ever since I got him.

Triple antibiotic ointment - as in neosporin or some such from the local drug store for use on humans? This is safe/good for a tort?

Should I cover it with a gauze pad/duct tape combo to keep dirt out of it?

Will also make a vet appt.

-Paul

 

[egyptiandan]

Neosporin is fine, just that a triple antibiotic gets you 2 more antibiotics to fight the infection. Yes covering it is just fine.

Danny

 

[exoticsdr]

That's very interesting, definitely need to have it looked at. Could be either fungal, bacterial or parasitic (or a combo, of course). I would have it debrided and have some of the scrapings sent off for histopathology.

I find that little "bubbly" area at the top right very intriguing. Do you notice anything moving in it if you watch carefully? Kind of reminds me of a cuterebra larvae, even though I have never heard of one presenting itself in shell, I have seen one on the neck of a box turtle. Even if it's not, it could still also be parasitic, myiasis is very common in any wounds of an animal that burrows and there are a multitude of parasites that can cause similar problems...screwworms would be high on my suspicion list but don't know if they are endemic to your area.

Doc

 

[Tom]

Very interesting...

 

[Kristina]

I agree Tom.

I have removed cuterebra larvae from many many cats, horses, and rabbits but I have never seen them in a reptile. Good eye on that, if that ends up being what it is. Never would have even crossed my mind.

 

[Tom]

It almost looks like an old infected puncture to me.

 

[Deaf Paul]

The clear "bubble" is actually just a lump of fluid leaking out - I suspect plasma. As soon as I touched it, it just smeared like a water drop would.

-Paul

 

[Deaf Paul]

Vet appt scheduled for 4 PM tomorrow.

Will update.

-Paul