box turtle habitat and questions

[DayDreamer]

hello everyone

I am a bit new to turtles only ever having a RES when I was very young. we are planning on getting a box turtle in april, and until then I plan on building the habitat, and learning as much as I can about them (obviously so the little guy can have a happy and healthy life)

we live in puerto rico where the temp. stays in the 80's year round. his main habitat will be indoors as there is a ton of cats in the area. however he would be taken outside daily for a bit of real sunlight. Im wondering with this temperature will he need a heat lamp or would a uv and basking light be fine? I dont want to over heat him, we have no a/c or fans in the living room just open windows with a nice breeze.

we are also planning on creating his habitat as close to natural as possible this would include planting live edible plants inside it, aswell as hopefully growing grass and dandelions... however my worry is that if i do this i will be unable to properly clean the habitat without ripping the plant life out. the in closure will be 5 foot by 3 foot and if i can find them i would be putting earth worms in the dirt to help keep it clean. (good or horrible idea? im kinda worried it might stink if i do this the habitat wont be clean) like i said we do want to keep it as natural as possible so any other ideas that might make it easy for clean up are more then welcome!

we also have the idea of adding a very shallow pond with a fountain in a corner of the habitat so the water stays fresh for him/her to soak in and drink possibly made with rough rocks to help keep the nails trimmed.

any thoughts on this stuff? anything I could rethink, plan better? what the best and closest to natural substrate you have found. also how do you clean the habitat weekly? and how often do you a complete change and clean of the whole thing? (I have heard some people just get a cat litter like scoop and clean out the soiled areas and put a fresh top layer then do a whole clean every few months)

my husband has the idea in his head to possibly buy another down the road and eventually let them mate... I love this idea however I would like to educate myself as much as possible before I make any decisions...
is it best to leave the eggs in the habitat where ever mom laid them to hatch or best to incubate them? (yes i know im far far ahead of myself here but it would def help with my decision to get a male or female 1st)

last but not least are freeze dried crickets, meal worms etc. okay? im not a huge fan of having a bunch of live bugs stored in my home. I have noticed they do sell them in my pet store (freeze dried) but have not seen (havent asked but did look around) any meal worms (or the sort only live crickets) being sold live there.

wow this ended up really long i am sorry!
any answers or advice etc. is always appreciated!

 

[Saleama]

Yes to everything you said. I have worms in all of my enclosures, even the ones with tortoises that do not eat worms. the box turtles will hunt them and the worms will breed and grow. It is a win win. Live plants are great and if you do everything right, you will not have to uproot any to clean. For a "pond" I use a paint tray but plan on putting in a filtered waterfall area. You just can't make it too big or deep. Box turtles swim very well but have trouble with moving water so be careful there. If you get him outside everyday or even a few days a week, inside UVB is not necessary. A basking light would be good but don't be surprised if he doesn't use it that often. He will be more inclined to use a soaking area with a good basking spot near by.

About the eggs I really can't say. Just make sure the area they are in is around 84 - 90. If you have the means to do so, I would dig them up and incubate them.

The freeze dried food is ok for adults but younger turtles are stimulated by the wiggling movement so live is better for them. You can also feed raw beef cut into smallet chuncks, boild chicken (never raw chicken!) and boiled egg. I also make an oil free or dry omelette with veggies that they love, just make sure to let it cool down first, and berries. Any and all kinds. Tomatoe is also a boxie favorite.

 

[DayDreamer]

Alright sounds good. so with cleaning the worms should take care of a lot of it i would just have to get a kitty litter scoop and clean out the poop from the top layer then just aerate the soil? it shouldnt stink as long as i replace soil as needed right? what kind of soil do you find is the best for box turtles? i plan on putting moss in for the baby to hide in and to keep it a bit humid (spraying daily) should that be enough?

do the worms need a food source? should i maybe put left overs of what the turtle does not eat deep into the soil when i aerate it?

I hate crickets ugh the way they jump around so the dry cooked omlette and worms, raw beef (would ground beef work???) plus freeze dried crickets should be good if changed up on a regular basis... and do i need to feed protein every day or how often?

I was looking at this lighting for extra uv (incase we get a super rainy week where i wont be able to take him outside) that doubles (im guessing as basking) http://pet.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pPETS-8101965dt.jpg


lastly im a bit worried if i plant edible plants and he eats them as well and hunts the worms and i feed him daily will i have a problem with over feeding?

 

[kimber_lee_314]

My box turtles live outside year round. They don't need any added heat or lighting. Every spring add a new layer of bark. That's about all I do in terms of keeping things clean. There are lots of worms, grubs,and pill bugs that keep the soil fresh. I never even see any poop - I guess because it dries up in the sun and gets mixed into the soil when they dig. Of course the water has to be changed daily, or even more depending on how often they soil the water.

As far as breeding goes, you can do both - leave the eggs in the ground to incubate naturally or incubate them artificially. I do both and have good results both ways.

You don't have to feed them live bugs at all. As long as they have a protein source (chicken, turkey, fish, high quality cat food) they are fine. You can also give them freeze dried bugs. I keep a superworm and mealworm farm inside and an earthworm and pill bug farm outside.

Hope that was helpful!

 

[Saleama]

You won't need to do any of that. Turtles will generally, um, take care of their own waste and it really isn't that much with a box turtle. Unless they poop in the water, which is about 95% of the time, then you have to clean that out. The worms and the turtle will do all the work with the soil as well. Basically, if you want him indoors, set up the enclosure how you want it with enough substrate in most of it for him to completly bury himself, about 6 - 7 inches. I use coco coir I get at petsmart but you can buy it fairly cheap on line from most hardware or garden stores. You can mix it with dirt from your yard but do not use any sand. I then top it off with a small cut bark or mulch. Keep it wet and warm and you are good to go. And as stated above, live food is not required but if there are worms in with them they will hunt them on their own so do not be overly worried if he doesn't seem to be eating what you feed him. Keep feeding. I drop the food in late at night before bed because they are early risers and will often eat even before the lights come on. I keep the lights on a 12 hour timer by the way.

My adults live all year round outside as well, in a garden my uncle plants "wild" style. No rows just fruit and berry and veggie plants planted here and there all over the place. It is tilled up every year at the end of winter and replanted in the spring. Our eggs are allowed to stay in ground and the babies we find are over wintered in fish tanks.

---

If you get a baby, you will never see him in a table that big. A baby box turtle is about the size of a quarter and weighs about 5 - 6 grams. If you get a baby I wouold suggest you get a 10 gallon tank for him for the first three or four years.

 

[DayDreamer]

for the baby I will prob just put a divider in it and grow its food in a large area of it. I figure it will cost way less in the long run to just build a big habitat from the start and slowly move the divider as s/he grows. but it will be a good space for growing the veggies until the little guy is big enough to enjoy it.

so the basking light does not need to be on 24/7? good to know my hubby wasnt too happy with the thought of our electricity bill going up the light im thinking of buying is heat and uvb so just a timer every 12 hours and trips outdoors every day or every couple days should be more then enough!

so glad i found this site thank you all. i feel a lot better knowing im on the right track!

if i section off a 3 foot by 2 foot area in the habitat until he is bigger would that be enough room for a hatchling or would a little more or less be better?

sorry for all the questions im building the habitat around this all and need to have it finished by april

 

[TortsNTurtles]

My box turtles live outside year round. They don't need any added heat or lighting. Every spring add a new layer of bark. That's about all I do in terms of keeping things clean. There are lots of worms, grubs,and pill bugs that keep the soil fresh. I never even see any poop - I guess because it dries up in the sun and gets mixed into the soil when they dig. Of course the water has to be changed daily, or even more depending on how often they soil the water.

As far as breeding goes, you can do both - leave the eggs in the ground to incubate naturally or incubate them artificially. I do both and have good results both ways.

You don't have to feed them live bugs at all. As long as they have a protein source (chicken, turkey, fish, high quality cat food) they are fine. You can also give them freeze dried bugs. I keep a superworm and mealworm farm inside and an earthworm and pill bug farm outside.

Hope that was helpful!

I am enjoying this thread! How do you keep your superworm and mealworm farm indoor?

 

[DayDreamer]

yeah im a bit curious as to how the worms eat too... is it just the turtle poop? or should i mix some of the left over veggies into the soil to provide the worms food (not going to use back yard soil as its all horrible here i would get a fresh clean bag from home depot one without the white balls in it)

also a bit curious if box turtles would eat the the dead beetles that grow from meal worms? or what do you do with them when they grow in your farm i would assume you would have a ton of dead bodies lol. I was actually looking at youtube videos about how to make a meal worm farm seems easy enough

 

[Saleama]

A baby box turtle needs live food. There really isn't any way around that. They might show some interest in raw beef or boiled egg, but they will not eat veggies or fruit, at lest the 20 + I have raised would not. I still offer it every week so when they do decide to eat it it is there. I put the uneaten veggies in the soil. The worms find it. Again, if you plan on taking him outside a few times a week, you do not need uvb in his home. The basking light also doesn't need to be on that long, as long as it is the temperature you say it is, he will be more than fine. Box turtles will hide from temps over 90 or so. They really like spring and fall weather, not summer heat. We see our adults more in the winter than the summer here in Texas. Just remember, box turtles like low light and lots of things to hide in. They do not thrive with bright, very hot light. My juveniles will bask under their light about an hour to two hours in the morning and occasionally in the evening so I put it right near the entrance to their swimming pool so they get some "sun" when they go swimming. Not sure about the beetles but I will tell you, they LOVE crickets and meal worms and super worms!

 

[kimber_lee_314]

My box turtles live outside year round. They don't need any added heat or lighting. Every spring add a new layer of bark. That's about all I do in terms of keeping things clean. There are lots of worms, grubs,and pill bugs that keep the soil fresh. I never even see any poop - I guess because it dries up in the sun and gets mixed into the soil when they dig. Of course the water has to be changed daily, or even more depending on how often they soil the water.

As far as breeding goes, you can do both - leave the eggs in the ground to incubate naturally or incubate them artificially. I do both and have good results both ways.

You don't have to feed them live bugs at all. As long as they have a protein source (chicken, turkey, fish, high quality cat food) they are fine. You can also give them freeze dried bugs. I keep a superworm and mealworm farm inside and an earthworm and pill bug farm outside.

Hope that was helpful!

I am enjoying this thread! How do you keep your superworm and mealworm farm indoor?

Ha ha! All my friends think I'm crazy when I talk about my worm farms, but my turtle/tortoise friends understand completely! I use one of the plastic drawer sets (three high) and keep the mealworms in the top, the superworms in the middle, and the supplies in the bottom. I keep them all in dry oatmeal (you can use bran) and potato halves (or apples or carrots) for moisture. It's pretty easy. The mealworms reproduce easily - going through all the stages and laying eggs in the oatmeal. The superworms are a little more of a pain. I put each one into a little drawer (like the kind of unit you use to store screws, nails ...etc.) They won't turn into pupae until I do this. Then I put the pupae back into the container so when they turn into beetles they will lay their eggs in the oatmeal. That's all there is it!

 

[lisa127]

I keep my indoor boxie enclosures with dim lighting. The smaller one is in a 50 gallon Rubbermaid with one 18 inch UVB and a black incandescent for heat. The larger one is in a wooden box that is about 3 feet deep by 3.5 feet wide. She has two 18 inch UVB's and black incandescent for heat. So really their enclosures are not all that bright. I keep the temps in a range from 70-75 on the cool side with the warm side in the 80's. The basking spot is usually about 88-90. I keep it humid by covering almost all of the enclosure.

I have raised two boxies from babies and one from about 1.5 to 2 years of age. Both of the babies were eating veggies/fruits by about 6 months old. But they always got live worms. Along with other protein.

 

[kimber_lee_314]

yeah im a bit curious as to how the worms eat too... is it just the turtle poop? or should i mix some of the left over veggies into the soil to provide the worms food (not going to use back yard soil as its all horrible here i would get a fresh clean bag from home depot one without the white balls in it)

also a bit curious if box turtles would eat the the dead beetles that grow from meal worms? or what do you do with them when they grow in your farm i would assume you would have a ton of dead bodies lol. I was actually looking at youtube videos about how to make a meal worm farm seems easy enough

They just eat any leftover food, plus the leaves, petals, grasses ... etc that fall to the ground. You don't have to feed them anything.

Yes, the box turtles will eat the dead (and live) beetles. Every now and then my cats catch a June bug and I will throw it into one of the pens - the LOVE those!

 

[lisa127]

Wait....you guys aren't allowing mealworms to live in your boxie enclosures are you? You're only talking about earthworms living in there.....

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Wait....you guys aren't allowing mealworms to live in your boxie enclosures are you? You're only talking about earthworms living in there.....

No - I toss the mealworms and superworms in one at a time for them to eat. I don't know if they would survive living outside like that. Maybe ...

 

[DayDreamer]

Wait....you guys aren't allowing mealworms to live in your boxie enclosures are you? You're only talking about earthworms living in there.....

nope im planning on putting nice juicy red wigglers in with them though and thinking about a meal worm farm... however im guessing that will be too much for one itty bitty baby

 

[TortsNTurtles]

Ha ha! All my friends think I'm crazy when I talk about my worm farms, but my turtle/tortoise friends understand completely! I use one of the plastic drawer sets (three high) and keep the mealworms in the top, the superworms in the middle, and the supplies in the bottom. I keep them all in dry oatmeal (you can use bran) and potato halves (or apples or carrots) for moisture. It's pretty easy. The mealworms reproduce easily - going through all the stages and laying eggs in the oatmeal. The superworms are a little more of a pain. I put each one into a little drawer (like the kind of unit you use to store screws, nails ...etc.) They won't turn into pupae until I do this. Then I put the pupae back into the container so when they turn into beetles they will lay their eggs in the oatmeal. That's all there is it!
[/quote]

Thanks this is awesome I am going become a worm farmer thanks !

---

[ . Box turtles will hide from temps over 90 or so. They really like spring and fall weather, not summer heat. We see our adults more in the winter than the summer here in Texas. Just remember, box turtles like low light and lots of things to hide in. They do not thrive with bright, very hot light. My juveniles will bask under their light about an hour to two hours in the morning and occasionally in the evening so I put it right near the entrance to their swimming pool so they get some "sun" when they go swimming. Not sure about the beetles but I will tell you, they LOVE crickets and meal worms and super worms!
[/quote]

What temperatures in the spring and fall does your adults like or come out in hibernation? What are the day and night temps? I am trying to figure out a safe time to put them in a turtle garden if not hibernating.

 

[DayDreamer]

Just wanted to say a HUGE thank you to all of you!
learned so much in that short time, I have already sound a seller for 1 pound of red wigglers (thats about 1000!!!) grown in organic medium and free of chemicals!! (www.wormsetc.com in case any of you are interested) couldn't believe how fast they responded and answered my questions about how to help create a healthy environment for them to reproduce and feed (while keeping my living room stink free) they also sell meal worms.

going to be buying them in a few weeks and prepping my soil with some of that coconut fiber stuff mixed into it and keep them in a bin while i start trying to build this enclosure.

fingers crossed that i can get this little guy to enjoy the greens i plan on planting in there

hubby is going crazy trying to think up crazy ideas to make this habitat amazing lol we are thinking of doing some sort of filtered waterfall in the soaking "pond" if you could even call such a tiny shallow area of water that.
but we are unsure of how to put it together without anything toxic... we were going to buy one of those tiny water filters made for 2.5 gallon fish bowls and superglue rocks to it to hide the filter creating something that looks like a mini natural waterfall, that pours into a casserole dish that would have slate,and rocks in it to make it more his size and trim his nails at the same time (removing layers of slate and rock as he grows) but also giving the area around the filter enough water to suck up and work properly

 

[TortsNTurtles]

Have you ever seen these

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ICNM96/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004BDL0E2/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

 

[DayDreamer]

oh oh no! but that 1st one is awesome!!! thanks! ill def show the hubby xD

 

[lynnedit]

I have tried a couple of small filters for my box turtle. Currently I have one that seems to be working, but I am still working out the kinks.
I have quickly learned that BT's like to p**p in their water, and drag in leaves, etc.
So you need a pretty hearty filter, or the intake can clog.

I have seen the Whisper upright filters set in a pyrex baking dish with rocks on the bottom. The rocks also do some filtration over time, and protect the intake of the filter. This will work to keep the water clear for 2-3 days, but you will still want to clean it out that often to avoid build up.
Otherwise you are cleaning their water every day!

This is a great thread and I love learning about worm farming!