Boy or Girl?

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Aristotle

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Hi Everyone. I am considering getting a second greek as a companion for my little Ari. When "she" first came home, I thought "her" personality was that of a boy. Then I did some research and bought a basic book on tortoises which includes a chapter on gender determination, and from the photos in the book I think my little boy is actually a girl. Below (I hope) I have included photos of Ari from above, from below, and of her "privates" (tail and anal notch). Not the greatest quality, but photography is not a skill I possess. I was not able to take a good side photo of her plastron, but trust me when I say it is totally flat, not curved. Can someone confirm that she is female? If I keep changing how I talk/sing to her (as my little boy/girl) I will need a referral to a tortoise therapist!! And the last thing I need is another generation of tortoises if I should get a second tortoise of the opposite gender!

As a bonus, if anyone can tell me what kind of greek she is from these photos, that would be helpful.

Please let me know if additional photos are needed for either of my questions.

Thanks all!

Best,
Kristina

arifromabove.jpg


arisprivates.jpg


aristummy.jpg
 

bikerchicspain

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It's a girl and I think she is a T.G. Ibera,:tort:

She is very pretty,:D
 

Aristotle

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Thanks All. I value your opinions. A girl she is! I will look for a sister for her but won't close the deal too quickly in case I get differing opinions on TF. My next project so to learn about T.G. Ibera torts [thanks Yvonne] ! :)

In case anyone is still reading this, [sorry for changing the subject] I have another question about Ari's black lips (besides the fact that she has chosen to be goth ;)). Sometimes they are a very dark black and seem larger, and then other times they are lighter and less prominent. Of course, this is after she has soaked. Like the true baby she is, her lips are green after her meal (like my youngest son's blue mouth/lips after he's had a blue icee!). So I guess what I am asking is whether it's normal for the lips to change from time to time, and if so, what does it mean?

Thanks again for all the help!

Best,
Kristina
 

bikerchicspain

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Hatchlings and yearlings change colour of their skin quite often, The lips are actually called beak, they can range from yelowish gold to dark black,
A lot of reptiles go a darker colour when they are cool or cold, When they are warm or in the sun their colours actually stand out more.

It is impossible to get a swelling on this as the beak is hard, that doesn't mean that she couldn't have swelling in her mouth,
Could you send pics of the black beak and the light colour beak?
 

Aristotle

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@ GBTortoises: Below are some not-so-good photos of Ari's head. She is napping right now so I can't take better ones, but will do so if the below photos don't show what you are looking for.
IMG_0125.jpg


IMG_0120.jpg


IMG_0113.jpg


@ Yvonne: I observed Ari's beak in very dark condition only once - that was when I freaked out a couple weeks ago the first time she totally buried herself in the cool side of her house. I was too worried to take a picture and once I was reassured by someone who responded to my frantic post, she was warmer and her beak was back to normal. Thanks for the correction of my use of words ["beak" instead of "lips"] - notwithstanding my label on this forum, I remain a total "newbie"! Speaking of which, I have questions re: Ari's growth rings and her age, which I will ask in a new post. I feel like my questions keep coming the more threads I read this wonderful forum!

Thanks,
Kristina
 

Aristotle

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Thanks Mao. Female seems to be the consensus. No one has so far opined that Ari is male. I appreciate your input.

Best,
Kristina
 

bikerchicspain

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Aristotle said:
@ GBTortoises: Below are some not-so-good photos of Ari's head. She is napping right now so I can't take better ones, but will do so if the below photos don't show what you are looking for.
IMG_0125.jpg


IMG_0120.jpg


IMG_0113.jpg


@ Yvonne: I observed Ari's beak in very dark condition only once - that was when I freaked out a couple weeks ago the first time she totally buried herself in the cool side of her house. I was too worried to take a picture and once I was
reassured by someone who responded to my frantic post, she was warmer and her beak was back to normal. Thanks for the correction of my use of words ["beak" instead of "lips"] - notwithstanding my label on this forum, I remain a total "newbie"! Speaking of which, I have questions re: Ari's growth rings and her age, which I will ask in a new post. I feel like my questions keep coming the more threads I read this wonderful forum!

Thanks,
Kristina

No probs, we are all learning new things from different members all the time!
 

GBtortoises

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I was hoping for a clear, well-lit photo of your tortoise's head area showing it's eyes (open) along with it's head shape and nose area. These, along with other features can often help to distinguish a Greek tortoises general geographical origin. Realistically, for a Greek tortoises captive care purposes it's probably more important to know from which region that it's from. Greek subspecies identification for the most part is very much "guesswork" at best unless the true origin of the tortoise or it's parents is verifiable. The exception to that is many of the older Ibera that came in years ago which exhibit all the classic traits of that subspecies. The more recent tortoises imported from the Middle Easterns and many of the North African species are subject to constant description change and are almost always questionable.
 

Aristotle

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GBtortoises said:
I was hoping for a clear, well-lit photo of your tortoise's head area showing it's eyes (open) along with it's head shape and nose area. These, along with other features can often help to distinguish a Greek tortoises general geographical origin. Realistically, for a Greek tortoises captive care purposes it's probably more important to know from which region that it's from. Greek subspecies identification for the most part is very much "guesswork" at best unless the true origin of the tortoise or it's parents is verifiable. The exception to that is many of the older Ibera that came in years ago which exhibit all the classic traits of that subspecies. The more recent tortoises imported from the Middle Easterns and many of the North African species are subject to constant description change and are almost always questionable.

Thanks for all the info. I will take several close-up pictures of her head tomorrow after she wakes up. In the meantime, below are 2 pics I took yesterday - in the first you can kind of see her open left eye and forehead, but you can't see her nose as it's hidden by my finger. I am posting the second picture because I have been trying for weeks to get a photo of her yawning and I FINALLY got it! :) Not sure it will help your analysis at all, but it's sure cute (at least to me).

arikiss.jpg


ariyawning.jpg



@Aldabraman: Thanks for the kind words about Ari. I adore her!

Best,
Kristina
 
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