I see a recurring issue that I am unable to explain, and would like to get input from you fantastic people. I primarily see this issue with sulcatas, but it is possible with any species. I think this is due to the large number of sulcatas bred, their incorrect status as a "desert" animal and the resulting lack of care, and their low cost, relatively speaking. Other tortoises, like Testudo sp., for example are not usually subjected to the same treatment and conditions.
The issue is this: Why do babies from the same group and same conditions show such variability in their survival rate and overall health. Frequently two people will buy clutchmate tortoises out of the same cage in the same pet shop, and one will thrive and the other will not. The most obvious answer is that they receive different care after they leave the shop. Okay, fair enough, but what if there are several and they are all in the same large cage, getting exactly the same routine, foods and temps? This happens even when they are very young, sometimes just a couple of weeks old.
As usual, I have a couple of possible theories. Please shoot them down if they are wrong.
Theory 1: It has come to my attention that a lot of big breeders don't use a "brooder box" type of set up. They leave their babies in the incubator until they absorb their yolk sac and are ready to go into a regular enclosure. This usually takes around a week. They don't offer any food or water during this time since the babies still have a yolk sac that they are living off of. By contrast, as soon as my babies step out of their egg, I squirt them off and put them in a soak, while I prepare their brooder box. I use damp paper towels and I put the remainder of their eggshell after a rinse, and some greens of some sort into the brooder box with them. My babies eat within days of hatching and without some food in there they try to eat the paper towels. I know a breeder who incubates in the ground. When he digs up a nest to check it after the hatchlings all come up, he finds NOTHING in the nest. No egg shells, no dud eggs, no left over poop from the mother, nothing but dirt. His babies eat everything before exiting the nest. He does not know how long they sit down there after hatching. So what do the babies left in the incubator eat? They must be eating their substrate. Vermiculite in most cases. Even my babies, who only spend hours in their incubation chamber after stepping out of their egg, will often poop out some vermiculite when they finally make their first poops after a week or so. I see this because I soak them daily and they poop in their soak water.
So theory one is intestinal obstruction. Some eat more substrate than others. Some pass the incubation media without issue. Others are blocked up and fail to thrive. Thus far I have not found anyone willing to sacrifice their baby to science to test this theory. A necropsy would reveal the presence or absence of any blockage.
Theory two: Chronic dehydration. The question is why do some succumb and not others? I have a possible answer. Many large breeders don't use a brooder box. This means their babies hatch and then go about a week with no water. They still have a yolk sac and are in the humidity of the incubator, so probably not a big deal. Many big breeders still use dry substrate and only soak their babies once a week. So let's say tortoise "A" hatches on Monday. Tortoise "B" hatches on Sunday.They sit in their incubator for about a week until they absorb their yolk sacs. The breeder soaks all his babies every Monday morning. He sees tortoise B is ready to go a week after hatching and puts him in the normal baby enclosure on Sunday evening. Tortoise B then gets soaked with the rest of the crowd on Monday morning. Now its Monday evening and a check reveals that tortoise A is ready to go, and so he's put in the big dry baby enclosure with the hot light, dry substrate and no water bowl. He goes another full seven days in his dry enclosure before his first soak or drink of water. Danny (a former very knowledgable and experienced TFO member and moderator) once made the statement that in these hot dry enclosures a tiny hatchling can literally dehydrate over night. So seven days and nights of this really ought to do a number on their kidneys and liver.
This sort of routine could explain why we see such a variation in clutchmate hatchlings from the "same" enclosure, conditions and diet. I don't see this sort of variation in MY hatchlings or in the hatchlings of many other breeders who soak early and often. Multiple other breeders have shared with me recently that they truly believe the first few days are critical for new hatchlings. My observations tell me the same.
Again necropsy would reveal the state of the kidneys, liver and other internal organs which would give good insight into determining if theory two is correct.
Discussion and ignorance destruction are encouraged, as usual.
The issue is this: Why do babies from the same group and same conditions show such variability in their survival rate and overall health. Frequently two people will buy clutchmate tortoises out of the same cage in the same pet shop, and one will thrive and the other will not. The most obvious answer is that they receive different care after they leave the shop. Okay, fair enough, but what if there are several and they are all in the same large cage, getting exactly the same routine, foods and temps? This happens even when they are very young, sometimes just a couple of weeks old.
As usual, I have a couple of possible theories. Please shoot them down if they are wrong.
Theory 1: It has come to my attention that a lot of big breeders don't use a "brooder box" type of set up. They leave their babies in the incubator until they absorb their yolk sac and are ready to go into a regular enclosure. This usually takes around a week. They don't offer any food or water during this time since the babies still have a yolk sac that they are living off of. By contrast, as soon as my babies step out of their egg, I squirt them off and put them in a soak, while I prepare their brooder box. I use damp paper towels and I put the remainder of their eggshell after a rinse, and some greens of some sort into the brooder box with them. My babies eat within days of hatching and without some food in there they try to eat the paper towels. I know a breeder who incubates in the ground. When he digs up a nest to check it after the hatchlings all come up, he finds NOTHING in the nest. No egg shells, no dud eggs, no left over poop from the mother, nothing but dirt. His babies eat everything before exiting the nest. He does not know how long they sit down there after hatching. So what do the babies left in the incubator eat? They must be eating their substrate. Vermiculite in most cases. Even my babies, who only spend hours in their incubation chamber after stepping out of their egg, will often poop out some vermiculite when they finally make their first poops after a week or so. I see this because I soak them daily and they poop in their soak water.
So theory one is intestinal obstruction. Some eat more substrate than others. Some pass the incubation media without issue. Others are blocked up and fail to thrive. Thus far I have not found anyone willing to sacrifice their baby to science to test this theory. A necropsy would reveal the presence or absence of any blockage.
Theory two: Chronic dehydration. The question is why do some succumb and not others? I have a possible answer. Many large breeders don't use a brooder box. This means their babies hatch and then go about a week with no water. They still have a yolk sac and are in the humidity of the incubator, so probably not a big deal. Many big breeders still use dry substrate and only soak their babies once a week. So let's say tortoise "A" hatches on Monday. Tortoise "B" hatches on Sunday.They sit in their incubator for about a week until they absorb their yolk sacs. The breeder soaks all his babies every Monday morning. He sees tortoise B is ready to go a week after hatching and puts him in the normal baby enclosure on Sunday evening. Tortoise B then gets soaked with the rest of the crowd on Monday morning. Now its Monday evening and a check reveals that tortoise A is ready to go, and so he's put in the big dry baby enclosure with the hot light, dry substrate and no water bowl. He goes another full seven days in his dry enclosure before his first soak or drink of water. Danny (a former very knowledgable and experienced TFO member and moderator) once made the statement that in these hot dry enclosures a tiny hatchling can literally dehydrate over night. So seven days and nights of this really ought to do a number on their kidneys and liver.
This sort of routine could explain why we see such a variation in clutchmate hatchlings from the "same" enclosure, conditions and diet. I don't see this sort of variation in MY hatchlings or in the hatchlings of many other breeders who soak early and often. Multiple other breeders have shared with me recently that they truly believe the first few days are critical for new hatchlings. My observations tell me the same.
Again necropsy would reveal the state of the kidneys, liver and other internal organs which would give good insight into determining if theory two is correct.
Discussion and ignorance destruction are encouraged, as usual.
