Bug bombing for moths (permethryn) with tortoise

[Flipajgno]

We have a 3 year old hermanns tortoise. We have to fog the house with permethryn bug bombs and spray the carpets with permethryn spray as we have a moth infestation in our wool carpets and have been told by the pest controller that this is the best way to deal with it. The tortoise enclosure is in a room that won't need to be fogged, and he will be kept outside the house for the whole day after the fogging. His enclosure can be removed as well for a day or so, so I think he'll be fine in his encloure in the non-fogged room when he comes back.

But the weather here is turning colder and wetter here now autumn is here, and normally he wanders the floor of the house for a few hours a day during the colder months when it's too cold to go outside or he gets restless and tries to climb out of his enclosure. So how long after fogging (with repeated airing of the space, repeated vacuuming of the rugs and mopping the hard floors) can he return to the rooms that have been fogged?

 

[Tom]

It is never safe to let a tortoise roam the floors. This leads to death, injury and illness a large percentage of the time. Make sure his enclosure is plenty large, 4x8 feet or more, and leave him in his enclosure.

 

[Flipajgno]

It is never safe to let a tortoise roam the floors. This leads to death, injury and illness a large percentage of the time. Make sure his enclosure is plenty large, 4x8 feet or more, and leave him in his enclosure.

Thanks for the advice, but I really don't think that's an issue here. There is nowhere for him to hide and nothing for him to get stuck underneath. We have no other animals, nothing for him to fall down and I work from home so I'm around the whole time he's out so he is never left alone. It really doesn't concern me.

We live in England where literally nobody has a house big enough for that size of enclosure - that is the size of one of our bedrooms! Our entire ground floor is only 20ft x 18ft. I think we'll just carry on as we are with a tortoise proofed ground floor. People have been happily managing tortoises this way here for decades!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

We have a 3 year old hermanns tortoise. We have to fog the house with permethryn bug bombs and spray the carpets with permethryn spray as we have a moth infestation in our wool carpets and have been told by the pest controller that this is the best way to deal with it. The tortoise enclosure is in a room that won't need to be fogged, and he will be kept outside the house for the whole day after the fogging. His enclosure can be removed as well for a day or so, so I think he'll be fine in his encloure in the non-fogged room when he comes back.

But the weather here is turning colder and wetter here now autumn is here, and normally he wanders the floor of the house for a few hours a day during the colder months when it's too cold to go outside or he gets restless and tries to climb out of his enclosure. So how long after fogging (with repeated airing of the space, repeated vacuuming of the rugs and mopping the hard floors) can he return to the rooms that have been fogged?

Permethrin is relatively safe for reptiles. Should be noted that *prolonged* contact of tortoise with permethrin is not the same as one time treatment and safety, likely, wasn't assessed in such cases. Also, aerosol components can be unsafe. Move out the enclosure while bombing, mop and clean surfaces 2-3 times, air out rooms. Permethrin doesn't degrade over time and likely will be present in rugs, carpets - I would restrict tortoise access as much as possible.

Please, take the advice against free roaming in the house seriously. It's much like driving drunk - many people do that, many survive but risks of accident are significantly higher. If possible, try to increase time outdoors for him (by building a cold frame, for example) and expand indoors enclosure ("double-decker", L-shaped enclosures work too).

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the advice, but I really don't think that's an issue here. There is nowhere for him to hide and nothing for him to get stuck underneath. We have no other animals, nothing for him to fall down and I work from home so I'm around the whole time he's out so he is never left alone. It really doesn't concern me.

We live in England where literally nobody has a house big enough for that size of enclosure - that is the size of one of our bedrooms! Our entire ground floor is only 20ft x 18ft. I think we'll just carry on as we are with a tortoise proofed ground floor. People have been happily managing tortoises this way here for decades.

It IS an issue everywhere. It should concern you. We see several deaths a year from this and not one of those people thought it was an issue. Now, after their tortoise is dead, they realize it is an issue. You don't have to learn this lesson the hard way.

Tortoises need what they need. They don't care about the size of your living arrangements. If a person doesn't have the space or resources to house an animal properly, then they shouldn't have that animal.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Thanks for the advice, but I really don't think that's an issue here. There is nowhere for him to hide and nothing for him to get stuck underneath. We have no other animals, nothing for him to fall down and I work from home so I'm around the whole time he's out so he is never left alone. It really doesn't concern me.

We live in England where literally nobody has a house big enough for that size of enclosure - that is the size of one of our bedrooms! Our entire ground floor is only 20ft x 18ft. I think we'll just carry on as we are with a tortoise proofed ground floor. People have been happily managing tortoises this way here for decades!

It IS an issue everywhere. It should concern you. We see several deaths a year from this and not one of those people thought it was an issue. Now, after their tortoise is dead, they realize it is an issue. You don't have to learn this lesson the hard way.

Tortoises need what they need. They don't care about the size of your living arrangements. If a person doesn't have the space or resources to house an animal properly, then they should have that animal.

edit...they shouldn't have that animal...

Please believe us...the floor is too cold for him especially in the UK
and it really is dangerous...I remember a lady who acted like you and disagreed with us...a week later she closed the kitchen door upon his head squashing it and killing him...tortoises need their own enclosure with UVB lighting and freakin heat. So believe me when I say...it IS an issue with you.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

There is nowhere for him to hide

You think this is a good thing?

I don't think floors can be made tortoise safe.

 

[Flipajgno]

edit...they shouldn't have that animal...

Please believe us...the floor is too cold for him especially in the UK
and it really is dangerous...I remember a lady who acted like you and disagreed with us...a week later she closed the kitchen door upon his head squashing it and killing him...tortoises need their own enclosure with UVB lighting and freakin heat. So believe me when I say...it IS an issue with you.

We have underfloor heating and no doors.

 

[Flipajgno]

You think this is a good thing?

I don't think floors can be made tortoise safe.

I mean there is nothing for him to get stuck underneath. We have house plants he can hide behind and a few corners he can shelter in. But he is watched the whole time.

 

[Flipajgno]

edit...they shouldn't have that animal...

Please believe us...the floor is too cold for him especially in the UK
and it really is dangerous...I remember a lady who acted like you and disagreed with us...a week later she closed the kitchen door upon his head squashing it and killing him...tortoises need their own enclosure with UVB lighting and freakin heat. So believe me when I say...it IS an issue with you.

He also has UV lighting and heat in his enclosure for the majority of the day. He only goes on the floor for a supervised hour at a time. We have underfloor heating and a very well insulated home. It's very warm.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

He also has UV lighting and heat in his enclosure for the majority of the day. He only goes on the floor for a supervised hour at a time. We have underfloor heating and a very well insulated home. It's very warm.

If the floors aren't slippery and he is supervised - 1 hour a day doesn't sound too risky. There is still a possibility of ingesting a foreign body - hair, coin, food piece (something overlooked during cleaning). You need a tortoise "first aid kit" - emergency vet number, soft tip tweezers, Betadine or chlorhexidine, mineral oil and a few other things (you can find them in related forum threads, and a such kit is a good thing to have not only for "free roaming" tortoise).

If you don't mind we can look at enclosure setup to make sure he gets enough heat and UVB.

 

[Flipajgno]

If the floors aren't slippery and he is supervised - 1 hour a day doesn't sound too risky. There is still a possibility of ingesting a foreign body - hair, coin, food piece (something overlooked during cleaning). You need a tortoise "first aid kit" - emergency vet number, soft tip tweezers, Betadine or chlorhexidine, mineral oil and a few other things (you can find them in related forum threads, and a such kit is a good thing to have not only for "free roaming" tortoise).

If you don't mind we can look at enclosure setup to make sure he gets enough heat and UVB.

Again, not greatly concerned about foreign bodies. We have a robot vac that goes round daily so you could literally eat your dinners off the floors.

Frankly I think he’s far safer on the floor inside than he is outside as we have a lot of local free roaming cats and foxes. It rains a lot here too.

Thanks for the offer on the enclosure but I’m happy with the setup.