Can Sulcata tortoise respitory infection with no nasal discharge?

Kawaiibunny1

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I have a rescue sulcata I don't know the age because they have changed hands but at the very least over a decade as that's how long the owner I get them from had them
We got them in October of 2021
I have attached a picture of them I know their shell is very deformed that's how I got them

Since we got them they've always breathed loud not whistly or anything just a noise simaler to if you really focus and listen to your self exhale never thought anything of it

In about January every so often maybe once a week I'd hear a loud noise come from where she's kept
I'd describe it simaler to a human clearing their throat but more grunty
Hard to explain but loud enough to be heard from across the house and up a level
I heard they can grunt sometimes when happy scared want to mate etc so thought nothing of it

Now in April it's become more frequent and tonight she did it multiple times in a row
So I got up to check on them, just in case gave them a soak and offered them some Romain

She seems fine is up walking around, eating with gusto begging for more when done, still comes to me when I come see them and I can not see any nasal discharge

But this noise has me fearing she may have an infection
and I have terrible anxiety so now that it's in My head I just can't unthink it and am now second guessing everything even though she seems fine

And dr Google is turning up nothing
So I figured the best way to maybe get some peace of mind is ask other people who have a large tort

TLDR : Has anyone's sulcata made loud grunty noises that sounds kinds like a human clearing their throat
And has anyone had a sulcata have a respiratory infection with no nasal discharge & still eating and roaming normally?



Since i know it is important
Information on husbandry
We live in ohio so they currently are in a pen in our basment that's 200 square feet
Organic top soil substrate
Ambient temp is high 60s but there are multiple heat lamps around that rise those spots to the 80s
And she has a heat pad that gets to 100 degrees she sleeps on
She always has access to a shallow pan of water with weekly soaks were I'll brush the dirt off her
And always has acess to hay and every couple days) gets some mixed greens that are soaked to give her more water
Verry Occasional veggies like cucumber or carrot
Greens are dusted with calcium with d3

Here in a couple weeks she will be moved outside as the temperatures here start being more consistently warm
 

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Lyn W

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Hi and welcome,
Until some sully keepers or keepers with experience of this noise reply you can check if your temps and living conditions are OK on these caresheets, and they will help you make any changes you need to make.

The first is mainly aimed at rearing babies but there is a lot of care information that will apply to older torts.

You don't mention what you are using for UVB.......if you post pics of the whole of the living area and the lamps you have then members can see if there's anything that could be affecting your tort.

Topsoils aren't usually recommended because of not knowing if any plants toxic to torts have been used to make it, but the caresheets will help you that
 

wellington

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From what you describe it sounds all normal.
You say they. Did you get more then one? The one in the pic looks awful small for what its age is suppose to be. Wondering if she was kept in a pair with another one? They should never be kept in pairs.
 

Tom

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We live in ohio so they currently are in a pen in our basment that's 200 square feet
Organic top soil substrate
Ambient temp is high 60s but there are multiple heat lamps around that rise those spots to the 80s
And she has a heat pad that gets to 100 degrees she sleeps on
She always has access to a shallow pan of water with weekly soaks were I'll brush the dirt off her
And always has acess to hay and every couple days) gets some mixed greens that are soaked to give her more water
Verry Occasional veggies like cucumber or carrot
Greens are dusted with calcium with d3
Hello and welcome. Thank you for rescuing this tortoise.

First I want to answer your original question: The answer is yes, they can have a RI without the nasal discharge. The breathing and throat clearing sounds you describe are often the first signs of oncoming sickness. Excessive yawning, and face rubbing frequently follow. The solution to this problem is heat. Lots of heat.

I see a few problems that I would like to point out in the interest of helping:
1. Those temps are much too cool for this tropical species. They need it 80-85 24/7 down on the floor where they are. Ambient temp on the floor should be minimum 80 day and night. Daytime ambient should be up around 90. And basking areas should be around 100 at tortoise shell height, but you'd need a bank of lights to do this properly.
2. Its difficult to use heat lamps for larger tortoises as the beam of light and heat is too narrowly focused. It tends to over heat and slow burn the top of their carapace, while not effectively warming their core.
3. The heat mat is good for larger tortoises in a situation like this, and that is probably what has prevented full-on sickness. Now you just need to get air temps up.
4. Soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. It is made from composted yard waste and there is no way to know what is in it. Oleander and azaleas are 100% organic, but also highly toxic.
5. 200 sq. feet is much too small of an area for a tortoise this size. Much like a horse, tortoises rely on locomotion to help move things through the GI tract. Keeping them in small quarters can wreak havoc. I completely realize you are doing the best you can, but wanted to point out that the tortoise needs larger accommodations ASAP. This is why it is so difficult to house these giants in northern climates. They need huge heated spaces.

Hope these things help. Questions are welcome.
 

Kawaiibunny1

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From what you describe it sounds all normal.
You say they. Did you get more then one? The one in the pic looks awful small for what its age is suppose to be. Wondering if she was kept in a pair with another one? They should never be kept in pairs.
No I just have the one it's a singular they as I have no idea what gender they are

from what I was told they changed hands a few times but the first owner was one of those bought it at a reptile expo knowing nothing and was lied to and told if you keep it in a small tank it won't get big situations
I've tried to get weight on them but they just went from 35lbs to 40lbs in the first couple months and stopped there so I'm pretty sure the poor treatment in their youth stunted them and they are just small

But we are trying to give them the best life possible regardless
Hello and welcome. Thank you for rescuing this tortoise.

First I want to answer your original question: The answer is yes, they can have a RI without the nasal discharge. The breathing and throat clearing sounds you describe are often the first signs of oncoming sickness. Excessive yawning, and face rubbing frequently follow. The solution to this problem is heat. Lots of heat.

I see a few problems that I would like to point out in the interest of helping:
1. Those temps are much too cool for this tropical species. They need it 80-85 24/7 down on the floor where they are. Ambient temp on the floor should be minimum 80 day and night. Daytime ambient should be up around 90. And basking areas should be around 100 at tortoise shell height, but you'd need a bank of lights to do this properly.
2. Its difficult to use heat lamps for larger tortoises as the beam of light and heat is too narrowly focused. It tends to over heat and slow burn the top of their carapace, while not effectively warming their core.
3. The heat mat is good for larger tortoises in a situation like this, and that is probably what has prevented full-on sickness. Now you just need to get air temps up.
4. Soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. It is made from composted yard waste and there is no way to know what is in it. Oleander and azaleas are 100% organic, but also highly toxic.
5. 200 sq. feet is much too small of an area for a tortoise this size. Much like a horse, tortoises rely on locomotion to help move things through the GI tract. Keeping them in small quarters can wreak havoc. I completely realize you are doing the best you can, but wanted to point out that the tortoise needs larger accommodations ASAP. This is why it is so difficult to house these giants in northern climates. They need huge heated spaces.

Hope these things help. Questions are welcome.
Thank you so much for the reply I appreciate it

I do have one question how is top spoil any different than putting her outside on my lawn for the summer isn't that also dirt we don't really know the history of?
And what is more recoomened that i can get that covers that ammount of distance and will grow grass? When I was researching alot of sites said topsoil so that's why I used it but I'm open to other suggestions.
(They are not going on my lawn because it's got alot of ivy that's apparently poisonous to them so I'm growing new grass and clover for them in their outdoor pen)

And I'm well aware it's a bit cold we live in an old house so the basment electric was unfortunately not made to handle a heater
And I couldn't bring an electrician in until spring or else the whole house would have no heat at all for a day
They are coming this month to rewire the house to handle a heater for next winter

But the person before me had them in a dog kennel (think like at the humane society it was at most 10 ft by 10 ft) no water one single heat lamp and basically said someone come get it or they would just "get rid of them" so I reached out and said I'd love someone with more experience to take them but if you get to the point of take care of it and have no inquiries I'll come get it

I have a russian so I figured what I could do was better than whatever "get rid of them" meant

They will spend their summer outside in a bigger pen as soon as it's more consistently warm
And we've been taking them out on days it's broke 80

So I guess my final questions what's better right now space or heat?

I have a reptile room that's consistently 80 degrees but theyd have to be in their small house (four feet by four feet kind of like a dog house its were they sleep at night because the closed space allows us to make it toasty and they seem to like it) since I don't want them free roaming My house I've heard that's disastrous.

And again thank you so much for your response and not making it super condescending
I really appreciate it because I'm deffinelty trying my best with what I have

I can't even go to reptile expos anymore because every table up here in ohio has dozens of baby sulcatas being sold as cute children's pets and it's breaks My heart and makes me mad because you are right there are not many people who can properly care for one in the north and I woukd do anything for this precious "shell puppy" as we call it
 
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wellington

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I rescued a leopard that was kept in a very small aquarium. Stunted his growth. I got him and set him up in a large enclosure, proper food etc and he caught up to the other leopard I had of same age and actually passed him in size. It will stunt them but not forever and it's just really bad on them. It's sad that people think it's right to purposely stunt an animal. Glad you were able to rescue the poor thing. With proper room to roam and good food and hydration, s/he should catch up to a size s/he should be.
 

Kawaiibunny1

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I rescued a leopard that was kept in a very small aquarium. Stunted his growth. I got him and set him up in a large enclosure, proper food etc and he caught up to the other leopard I had of same age and actually passed him in size. It will stunt them but not forever and it's just really bad on them. It's sad that people think it's right to purposely stunt an animal. Glad you were able to rescue the poor thing. With proper room to roam and good food and hydration, s/he should catch up to a size s/he should be.
That's great to hear! Hopefully as the weather warms up hear they'll grow some more we've been trying real hard to make up for however long they were mistreated
 

Tom

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Update: just in case she does have an infection I have managed to find a vet that had an opening today and she and I will be going on a short road trip a few cities over to get looked at
Be aware that most vets don't know much about tortoises and tortoise care. They misdiagnose the issue, prescribe the wrong treatments, and generally fail to address the CAUSE of the sickness. Don't let the vet do any "vitamin injections", and be aware that enroflaxin/Baytril, which is the most commonly prescribed drug for tortoises with a RI is extremely caustic and painful. It literally causes a chemical burns at the injection site and it should not be used.

Personally, I see no benefit to driving your tortoise across multiple towns only to have someone who knows nothin about tortoises give you bad advice and charge you for it. There is no semester on tortoise care in vet school. Your problem is cold temperatures and a small space. Fix those problems and the symptoms of those problems disappear.
 

Maggie3fan

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I hate to say this, but I mostly agree with Tom...I keep Sulcata in the PNW. I have an unknown age female who is the twin of yours...100_2125.JPG
this is Mary Knobbins. Yours is pyramided like Mary...Mary evidently grew up on the cement streets of downtown Portland Oregon...I keep her in a heated and insulated tort shed with access to 3 outside pens. My shed stays a constant 85 degrees rain or snow,100_6311.JPG
it's not fancy but it works. There's a sleeping box with a heat mat and several different basking lights. but Mary prefers the heat mat or the sun. There's no substrate in the shed, she lives on a plywood floor. It makes mess easier to clean up.100_5457.JPG
You need to feed a better diet instead of relying solely on Romaine...Carrots are fine as a treat, but I personally would never feed carrots like I see in your photo. Mary eats locally grown grass hay supplemented with grocery store greens like collard, kale, mustard, radicchio. Then you buy dried flowers and weeds to sprinkle over the greens. The reason Tom mentioned the small area because in the wild tortoises wander maybe 20 miles a day taking a bite here and there, and mostly the walking aids with digestion. Also their insides need to be 85 degrees in order to digest that food. I feed Mary daily...and I open her doggie door most days during the winter and everyday spring and summer. So now we've given you stuff to think about. Your tort looks like he will pick the weight up once his diet is closer to correct.
Welcome to TFO, and don't feel assaulted or criticized...we simply gave you information to help your tortoise stay healthy and grow. We also have a couple of threads just for conversation and another for photos of your other pets...TFO is a great place for information Tom and wellington are 2 of our foremost experts...don't waste money on a Vet yet...improve his heat etc and he will be fine...oh.... turn him upside down...and take a photo of his tail and plastron, take a close up photo of his gular and face...like this....and we will tell you his sex...lol100_1501.JPG
see that huge gular? That's a 120+ male named Dudley.100_2184.JPG
 

Kawaiibunny1

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Newark ohio
Be aware that most vets don't know much about tortoises and tortoise care. They misdiagnose the issue, prescribe the wrong treatments, and generally fail to address the CAUSE of the sickness. Don't let the vet do any "vitamin injections", and be aware that enroflaxin/Baytril, which is the most commonly prescribed drug for tortoises with a RI is extremely caustic and painful. It literally causes a chemical burns at the injection site and it should not be used.

Personally, I see no benefit to driving your tortoise across multiple towns only to have someone who knows nothin about tortoises give you bad advice and charge you for it. There is no semester on tortoise care in vet school. Your problem is cold temperatures and a small space. Fix those problems and the symptoms of those problems disappea

I hate to say this, but I mostly agree with Tom...I keep Sulcata in the PNW. I have an unknown age female who is the twin of yours...View attachment 343954
this is Mary Knobbins. Yours is pyramided like Mary...Mary evidently grew up on the cement streets of downtown Portland Oregon...I keep her in a heated and insulated tort shed with access to 3 outside pens. My shed stays a constant 85 degrees rain or snow,View attachment 343955
it's not fancy but it works. There's a sleeping box with a heat mat and several different basking lights. but Mary prefers the heat mat or the sun. There's no substrate in the shed, she lives on a plywood floor. It makes mess easier to clean up.View attachment 343956
You need to feed a better diet instead of relying solely on Romaine...Carrots are fine as a treat, but I personally would never feed carrots like I see in your photo. Mary eats locally grown grass hay supplemented with grocery store greens like collard, kale, mustard, radicchio. Then you buy dried flowers and weeds to sprinkle over the greens. The reason Tom mentioned the small area because in the wild tortoises wander maybe 20 miles a day taking a bite here and there, and mostly the walking aids with digestion. Also their insides need to be 85 degrees in order to digest that food. I feed Mary daily...and I open her doggie door most days during the winter and everyday spring and summer. So now we've given you stuff to think about. Your tort looks like he will pick the weight up once his diet is closer to correct.
Welcome to TFO, and don't feel assaulted or criticized...we simply gave you information to help your tortoise stay healthy and grow. We also have a couple of threads just for conversation and another for photos of your other pets...TFO is a great place for information Tom and wellington are 2 of our foremost experts...don't waste money on a Vet yet...improve his heat etc and he will be fine...oh.... turn him upside down...and take a photo of his tail and plastron, take a close up photo of his gular and face...like this....and we will tell you his sex...lolView attachment 343957
see that huge gular? That's a 120+ male named Dudley.View attachment 343958

Be aware that most vets don't know much about tortoises and tortoise care. They misdiagnose the issue, prescribe the wrong treatments, and generally fail to address the CAUSE of the sickness. Don't let the vet do any "vitamin injections", and be aware that enroflaxin/Baytril, which is the most commonly prescribed drug for tortoises with a RI is extremely caustic and painful. It literally causes a chemical burns at the injection site and it should not be used.

Personally, I see no benefit to driving your tortoise across multiple towns only to have someone who knows nothin about tortoises give you bad advice and charge you for it. There is no semester on tortoise care in vet school. Your problem is cold temperatures and a small space. Fix those problems and the symptoms of those problems disappear.
I am well aware not all vets are great with exotics it was a vet I found on the recommended tortiose vet list on this forum it's why I drove a ways id's rather take the time and drive to see one that is recommended than see the one close to me that says they do exotic pets but couldn't even sex her when I first got her

No injections were recommended
I decided just to take her because I was also hoping to discuss if her beak needed filed she has like a long fang on one side that seems to catch food
So figured if I was already planning a vet trip mind as well get the peace of mind as well

After an xray an exam in which she screamed her scream at the vet and some blood work
Diagnosis is she's perfectly healthy she's just a very spicy very bratty very load ornery tort that wanted baths and food at 2 am
And I'm just an anxious mess that worries about everything

There is an electrician coming next week to switch out my breaker panel to accommodate a heater big enough to raise the ambient temps

The enclosure outside is about 1000 sq feet and if the weather is like it was last year hopefully she'll spend June July August September outside full time and will spend some of May and October outside weather permitting. And have unlimited acess to home grown grasses and clover to graze on


I will be taking the dirt out today but am still unsure what the best replacement for it is? In the baby sheet it says coco coir but I cannot fathom a place to get 200 sq feet of coco coir from
The floor underneath her enclosure is concrete if that matters


Thank you all for the friendly advice
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
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Joined
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Messages
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Location (City and/or State)
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I am well aware not all vets are great with exotics it was a vet I found on the recommended tortiose vet list on this forum it's why I drove a ways id's rather take the time and drive to see one that is recommended than see the one close to me that says they do exotic pets but couldn't even sex her when I first got her

No injections were recommended
I decided just to take her because I was also hoping to discuss if her beak needed filed she has like a long fang on one side that seems to catch food
So figured if I was already planning a vet trip mind as well get the peace of mind as well

After an xray an exam in which she screamed her scream at the vet and some blood work
Diagnosis is she's perfectly healthy she's just a very spicy very bratty very load ornery tort that wanted baths and food at 2 am
And I'm just an anxious mess that worries about everything

There is an electrician coming next week to switch out my breaker panel to accommodate a heater big enough to raise the ambient temps

The enclosure outside is about 1000 sq feet and if the weather is like it was last year hopefully she'll spend June July August September outside full time and will spend some of May and October outside weather permitting. And have unlimited acess to home grown grasses and clover to graze on


I will be taking the dirt out today but am still unsure what the best replacement for it is? In the baby sheet it says coco coir but I cannot fathom a place to get 200 sq feet of coco coir from
The floor underneath her enclosure is concrete if that matters


Thank you all for the friendly advice
Coco coir is too messy. You can buy it in bulk at garden centers. An $11 block will make enough to do 3-4 100 gallon tanks or one 4x8 foot enclosure.

Personally I prefer orchid bark for indoor housing. It is harder to find on your side of the country, so Cypress mulch might be your best bet over there. It can often be found at Home Depot or Lowes for $2-3 for a 2.0 cu. ft. bag. That is a quarter of what I pay for o bark here.

Another alternative is the yard dirt from outside. The problem with bought in a bag soil is that it is made from people's composted yard waste. The dirt in you're yard is not made from oleander and azalea clippings is it? No grass clippings with myriad hardware store poisons on it? I use the native dirt inside some of my night boxes for the larger tortoises. It makes clean up a lot easier. I just scoop it out with a flat head shovel, fling it over the wall (still our property), and then put in some fresh dirt from right next to the night box. Easy peasy.

The outdoor pen sounds great. You will need a night box to keep the tort warm and safe from nocturnal predators. Unlike the Russians you had before that tolerate and need a cool night temperature followed by a warm day, this sulcata needs to be kept 80-85 degrees at night. One like this will work perfectly:
The night box makes outdoor housing work even when the weather isn't exactly perfect. We have cold nights here, even in summer. We get occasional cold over cast winter days where the high doesn't get above 55-60. The tortoises can come out and graze, and then go back in the warm box to wait for better weather. All my outdoor tortoises sleep in their boxes every night. I latch their doors shut every night and open them up every morning. This keeps the rodents, insects, coyotes, owls, raccoons, and everything else away from the tortoises while they sleep at night.
 

Kawaiibunny1

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Joined
Apr 28, 2022
Messages
6
Location (City and/or State)
Newark ohio
I hate to say this, but I mostly agree with Tom...I keep Sulcata in the PNW. I have an unknown age female who is the twin of yours...View attachment 343954
this is Mary Knobbins. Yours is pyramided like Mary...Mary evidently grew up on the cement streets of downtown Portland Oregon...I keep her in a heated and insulated tort shed with access to 3 outside pens. My shed stays a constant 85 degrees rain or snow,View attachment 343955
it's not fancy but it works. There's a sleeping box with a heat mat and several different basking lights. but Mary prefers the heat mat or the sun. There's no substrate in the shed, she lives on a plywood floor. It makes mess easier to clean up.View attachment 343956
You need to feed a better diet instead of relying solely on Romaine...Carrots are fine as a treat, but I personally would never feed carrots like I see in your photo. Mary eats locally grown grass hay supplemented with grocery store greens like collard, kale, mustard, radicchio. Then you buy dried flowers and weeds to sprinkle over the greens. The reason Tom mentioned the small area because in the wild tortoises wander maybe 20 miles a day taking a bite here and there, and mostly the walking aids with digestion. Also their insides need to be 85 degrees in order to digest that food. I feed Mary daily...and I open her doggie door most days during the winter and everyday spring and summer. So now we've given you stuff to think about. Your tort looks like he will pick the weight up once his diet is closer to correct.
Welcome to TFO, and don't feel assaulted or criticized...we simply gave you information to help your tortoise stay healthy and grow. We also have a couple of threads just for conversation and another for photos of your other pets...TFO is a great place for information Tom and wellington are 2 of our foremost experts...don't waste money on a Vet yet...improve his heat etc and he will be fine...oh.... turn him upside down...and take a photo of his tail and plastron, take a close up photo of his gular and face...like this....and we will tell you his sex...lolView attachment 343957
see that huge gular? That's a 120+ male named Dudley.View attachment 343958
Thank you for your reply!
She went to the vet today and got a clean bill of health (except for her "fang" she came to us with that needs filed a bit)
She was sexed a girl and diagnosis was she's massive manipulative brat that learned If she made a fuss I'd fawn over her

And she's actually up since last I weighted her she is now 50 pounds so she is continuing to grow from the 30 lbs she was when we got her in October

She doesn't just eat Romain She eats mostly timothy hay and clover hay I always have it fresh for her in the enclosure to graze on and she likes to walk around with it sticking out of her mouth like she's a farmer
Every few days she gets a salad of whatever I have ready in my gardens or small green house when its winter

It's a vast array of collards turnip greens mustard greens green leaf red leaf Romain chard endive escarole dandelion clover wheat grass probably more I'm forgetting I pretty much exclusivity grow tort food because before her i have a russian that i wanted a big array of greens for but didnt like how much went bad when getting from the store because he didnt even eat a whole head let alone 5 different heads
all organic
Just happened that this week i had chard and Romain that were ready
But I'm deffinelty open to suggestions and criticism I just want her happy and healthy

And for the carrot I know that looks super weird she doesn't actually eat those like that she likes to play with them she rolls with her nose and feet and could spend the better part of an hour kicking the carrots around her enclosure picking them up putting them down
She also has a medicine ball she likes to push around and play with
And in my trying to judge if she was lethargic i put the carrot in there to see if she'd have the energy to play with them

We call her a shell puppy because she acts so much like a dog

If she gets carrots to eat she only eats a few peices before deciding the hay and or greens are more fun and they are cut up smaller and that only happens maybe once or twice a month and she only eats like 4 bites and is over it
Coco coir is too messy. You can buy it in bulk at garden centers. An $11 block will make enough to do 3-4 100 gallon tanks or one 4x8 foot enclosure.

Personally I prefer orchid bark for indoor housing. It is harder to find on your side of the country, so Cypress mulch might be your best bet over there. It can often be found at Home Depot or Lowes for $2-3 for a 2.0 cu. ft. bag. That is a quarter of what I pay for o bark here.

Another alternative is the yard dirt from outside. The problem with bought in a bag soil is that it is made from people's composted yard waste. The dirt in you're yard is not made from oleander and azalea clippings is it? No grass clippings with myriad hardware store poisons on it? I use the native dirt inside some of my night boxes for the larger tortoises. It makes clean up a lot easier. I just scoop it out with a flat head shovel, fling it over the wall (still our property), and then put in some fresh dirt from right next to the night box. Easy peasy.

The outdoor pen sounds great. You will need a night box to keep the tort warm and safe from nocturnal predators. Unlike the Russians you had before that tolerate and need a cool night temperature followed by a warm day, this sulcata needs to be kept 80-85 degrees at night. One like this will work perfectly:
The night box makes outdoor housing work even when the weather isn't exactly perfect. We have cold nights here, even in summer. We get occasional cold over cast winter days where the high doesn't get above 55-60. The tortoises can come out and graze, and then go back in the warm box to wait for better weather. All my outdoor tortoises sleep in their boxes every night. I latch their doors shut every night and open them up every morning. This keeps the rodents, insects, coyotes, owls, raccoons, and everything else away from the tortoises while they sleep at night.
So fill dirt yes to
Coco coir is too messy. You can buy it in bulk at garden centers. An $11 block will make enough to do 3-4 100 gallon tanks or one 4x8 foot enclosure.

Personally I prefer orchid bark for indoor housing. It is harder to find on your side of the country, so Cypress mulch might be your best bet over there. It can often be found at Home Depot or Lowes for $2-3 for a 2.0 cu. ft. bag. That is a quarter of what I pay for o bark here.

Another alternative is the yard dirt from outside. The problem with bought in a bag soil is that it is made from people's composted yard waste. The dirt in you're yard is not made from oleander and azalea clippings is it? No grass clippings with myriad hardware store poisons on it? I use the native dirt inside some of my night boxes for the larger tortoises. It makes clean up a lot easier. I just scoop it out with a flat head shovel, fling it over the wall (still our property), and then put in some fresh dirt from right next to the night box. Easy peasy.

The outdoor pen sounds great. You will need a night box to keep the tort warm and safe from nocturnal predators. Unlike the Russians you had before that tolerate and need a cool night temperature followed by a warm day, this sulcata needs to be kept 80-85 degrees at night. One like this will work perfectly:
The night box makes outdoor housing work even when the weather isn't exactly perfect. We have cold nights here, even in summer. We get occasional cold over cast winter days where the high doesn't get above 55-60. The tortoises can come out and graze, and then go back in the warm box to wait for better weather. All my outdoor tortoises sleep in their boxes every night. I latch their doors shut every night and open them up every morning. This keeps the rodents, insects, coyotes, owls, raccoons, and everything else away from the tortoises while they sleep at night.
It's not from a bag though
I got it brought in on a dump truck And it's was from a house being built about 20 minutes from My house

Sometimes construction company's will sell the top soil they remove when escavating a basment or foundation
They also sell the subsoil they remove as fill dirt it's a way to make extra money while simultaneously getting rid of their unwanted byproduct

So this top soil would be like if I went and dug to the clay in My backyard and brought it all inside which is why My confusion on how putting my tort outside in my yard is okay and on the same dirt inside is not
 

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