can this be used as a substrate for redfoots??

[tortguy521]

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

 

[t_mclellan]

Yes!
Cypress is great with Redfoots.

 

[grettas mom]

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I use cypress for my red foot and it works very well. Helps hold in moisture

 

[Yvonne G]

But read the ingredients carefully. If there is ANY pine mixed in with the cypress, its not a good substrate.

 

[Tim/Robin]

The Timberline blend does have pine in it.

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Why does Cyprus claim to be anti fungus, bug, etc? One person told me that is because it looses its moisture faster, yet this product advertises it helps hold in moisture.

 

[Madkins007]

Cypress is anti-stuff because it is acidic.

(And just FYI- Cyprus is a country near Turkey and Lebanon. CYPRESS is the wood usually found in swampy places- hence its resistance to decay.)

I've seen a few references to avoiding pine, but I have not read any information about why. I do not know of any reason to avoid pine chunks as part of a substrate mix but would be happy to learn.

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Thanks for the info Mark... I'm thinking about trying out cypress next time.

 

[K9KidsLove]

As mentioned, double check what the "other blends" of mulch is included. You need 100% cypress mulch.
I was told the reason pine shouldn't be used is cause it has toxic tar in the sap of the wood.
Patsy

 

[Yvonne G]

Mark: Pine or any of the aromatic oils wood, contains strong-smelling oils that are harmful to a tortoise's eyes...especially young tortoises. My sister used a pine mulch for two baby sulcatas and one died. The other had burned corneas and was blind, but by the time she re-homed it, several months later, was gaining some sight back.

 

[Madkins007]

Thanks Yvonne! I've been wondering about this because I have seen so little about it. Dr. Mader's book tells us to avoid cedar and redwood because the oils are an irritant, especially to small reptiles but does not say anything bad about pine.

Tortoise Trust tells us to avoid pine because it emits toxic fumes when heated, although a) I don't plan on heating them that hot when the animal is in the tank, and b) no one else on the Internet seems too worried about this (One would think that if the fumes were hazardous to humans that there would be warnings about it all over the place). PineSol fumes, pine oil-based soldering flux fumes, etc. are known health issues but not heated regular wood.

So, do you think that it may be the volume or ratio of pine that caused the problem?

 

[Yvonne G]

It is regularly sold as rodent bedding, so it must just be tortoises that are sensitive to it. Personally, I LOVE the smell of pine when I'm building a project. It doesn't seem to harm me at all.

 

[ElectricBlues]

It is regularly sold as rodent bedding, so it must just be tortoises that are sensitive to it. Personally, I LOVE the smell of pine when I'm building a project. It doesn't seem to harm me at all.

Its dangerous for rodents as well, but is still sold. Aspen is a hardwood and is safe.

 

[Madkins007]

It is regularly sold as rodent bedding, so it must just be tortoises that are sensitive to it. Personally, I LOVE the smell of pine when I'm building a project. It doesn't seem to harm me at all.

Its dangerous for rodents as well, but is still sold. Aspen is a hardwood and is safe.

As far as I can tell, there is little hard evidence for PINE being a problem. For example, the Safe Pet Bedding FAQ (http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/faq/beddingfaq.shtml) says "For fairness, it should be pointed out that the evidence against pine is not generally considered to be as compelling as the evidence against cedar, and the claim that pine is unsafe as bedding is more disputed."

Most of the anti-pine comments seems to be 'cedar is bad and pine is related so better safe than sorry', but in a different group of plants- redwood is considered an irritant, but redwoods are cypress trees, and cypress mulch is considered safe.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

When I moved to Oregon from California I couldn't find the substrate I was used to getting. So I shopped around until I found a product that came in big bags at Home depot called forest mulch. I put it in the habitat and at the time I was housing 3 small Sulcata. So that night I poured water over it and mixed it all around and the next morning I turn on their lights and the first thing I noticed was the strong pine scent, and one hatchling was dead and another had closed swollen eyes, the third's eyes were closed but not swollen. Over the next 2 years I spent a couple of thousand dollars working on Tony's eyes. When I had Yvonne rehome him he was blind in his left eye with diminished sight in his right. I can't find the better pictures right now but this is what they looked like...when I called the company to find out what forest mulch was she said because we were in the PacificNorthWest it was mostly pine. Now I don't have any "hard evidence" to prove it was pine that caused his eye problems, but I know every day his eyes hurt him so bad he would drool and make a mewing sound and they were swollen up huge so he couldn't see and he would rub those sore eyes on his thorny legs and it was simply awful to see and horrible for him to experience. You can believe what you want but I know it was pine that killed one animal and blinded the other.