Can we really over do the D??????(I'm not so sure)

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Tortoise

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Hi
I was watching the following Dr Mercola video interview yesterday and was wondering how can we over do the D vitamin in tortoises?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SPRbj2EjU38
The clip demonstrated that humans can take huge amounts (well above the RDA) with no ill effects and actually huge health benefits and improvements etc and I started to wonder more about our sun loving tortoises.
The video is over an hour so grab a coffee or two and I would appreciate the thoughts on this.
I am in snowy Canada so we are all d deprived-humans, tortoises and all.
I tend to give a calcium and Vit D supplement to my reptiles in Winter and use limestone flour or other non D supplements in the Summer as they spend time outdoors when its warm.

I wonder if we are underestimating the amount needed for chelonia just as we have for humans?
Thanks
Louise
 

wellington

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Do not take the statement below as the right way. So any newbies especially, this is not being stated as a fact by me or anyone that i know of other then the person who sent this info on to me. Just someones view i wanted to share. This is what I was told by the person I purchased my tort from a couple years ago. Just to let you all know, I have been using D3 per the advice of this forum. However, I just wanted to throw this in on this thread to see if there are any views the same as this one.

-" Do not use the D3 ever. D3 allows for calcium absorption in all animals (including people, in which is it good). However, per my vet's research (not sure whether it was published) using D3 in turtles and tortoises causes too much calcification and can lead to death. He has seen this in the clinic. Calcium is naturally absorbed by the body (in humans and animals) because of the absorption of D3 from the sun. Many people do not get enough natural sunlight anymore in their daily lives. Hence, all the over the counter calcium supplements with D3 for people. For some reason (thought to do with the fact they have a shell), turtles and tortoises can get too much of this and it can be harmful. You are already supplying the vitamins needed for calcium absorption with your UVB bulb and or natural sunlight. Just use straight calcium as your supplement. I use cuttlebone as it is natural and cheap. I tend to stay away from most retail products, as they are not natural. I hope that made sense.... D3 bad for turtles and tortoises; good for people (we don't have shells).
- Don't worry about natural sunlight exposure if it is too cold or wet where you live, as long as you keep a good UVB bulb. "
 

Tortoise

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Interesting Wellington, I am not sure about this opinion from the tortoise seller.
I urge everyone who can manage the time to watch the clip to do so as we as humans would all benefit from the information provided.
In Canada our RDA is only stated as 400IU of Vitamin D a far cry from the recommended 8000iu suggested by the scientist on the video clip.

She even went as far as saying that cancer patients can prevent recurrences given the increased vitamin D and the chances of over dose are virtually non existent.
A cheap, safe
and easy improvement we can all make if we choose.

It still makes me wonder if we need to rethink the levels of D in our indoor tortoises especially here where we only get good quality natural sun for 3-4 mths maximum annually.
I am not a scientist but is there anyone here who can compare our huge needs of the D vitamin and the potential needs of chelonia in terms of their vitamin D needs, I would love to learn more as we may have underestimated this?

A shame the video is so lengthy but its worth the time

Louise
 

CDNPyxis

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I would not confuse "our needs" with seeing a benefit to increasing the amount supplied. The same is true for humans and Vit. C, you only "need" a small amount but there are health benefits to increasing that dose. What is still not clear for Vit. D is the long term effects of the supplementation. I do take D at higher levels during the winter but not anywhere close to 8000 units. It has been shown in Humans that increased Vit. D will increase your blood calcium levels and most physicians do not reccomend a prolonged high level of Vit. D supplementation.

Now animals are different, it is important to remember that many animals live very close to the verge of starvation at many points in time in their life and thus have become very effieient with food, and overfeeding and oversupplementation can be far more detrimental to them.

I know that Frye's Reptile Care shows a necropsy of a lizard that died from oversupplementation of Vit. D (it calcified the internal organs), I just moved and all my books are packed up so I can't tell you what exactly he says, but myslelf, I give very little supplementation of Vit. D and rely on the Sun in the summer and UV lighting in the winter. I have heard from several different veterinary sources that oversupplementation of Vit. D3 in reptiles is a bad thing.
 

Tortoise

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Thank you CDNPyxis

I appreciate your information.
It would be good to see more research on this as it becomes available but I guess we need to stay cautious in over supplementation.I know that you can't over dose on the real UV so we will make the best of the sun when we have it available here for the tortoises to bask in.

I don't trust that the UV light methods we use are anywhere close to the benefit of the sun, but we can only provide what we have available and hope its sufficient.

If I emigrate again in my life time I am moving closer to the equator for the benefit to my tortoises and us too!!:)
Thanks again for you input
 
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