Care for a Greek tortosie hatchling.

[TortMom6]

I have a Greek tortosie that hatched August 11, 2018 and I want to do everything right for this little guy (or girl). I've read the care sheets from this forum, but is care the same for adults as hatchlings?

I want to know everything about everything for my baby:

Enclosure size and type?
Heat? Ambient temperature and basking?
UVB? Best way to provide it.
Soaking, how often and at what temperature?
Humidity? Should I also have a humid hide?
Substrate/bedding. What is best?
Appropriate water bowl. How big and how deep?
Feeding. Appropriate foods? Feed inside or outside of the enclosure?
Should the enclosure be covered? How does the heat get in if it's covered?
Calcium supplement? How much and how often? With or without D3?
Multivitamin? How much and how often?
Best things to use to measure humidity and heat?
Anything else I might missed?

I would really appreciate your input.

This is his current enclosure. The bulb says it is 25 watts and provides UVB. And there is an under tank heat mat set on a thermostat to not get over 83°F. There is a flat red Rock on top so he can't dig and get right on top of it.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Greetings...

I saw your list of questions and concerns, and I’m pretty sure that almost all are covered in the Care Sheet pinned under Greek Torts and prepared by well respected keeper/breeder Chris Hermanni.

Heres the URL - https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/

Personally, I would try and get a much larger enclosure than you presently have.

Good luck!

 

[TortMom6]

Greetings...

I saw your list of questions and concerns, and I’m pretty sure that almost all are covered in the Care Sheet pinned under Greek Torts and prepared by well respected keeper/breeder Chris Hermanni.

Heres the URL - https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/

Personally, I would try and get a much larger enclosure than you presently have.

Good luck!

Thank you. I did see that care sheet, but I wasn't sure if it applied to hatchling too.

 

[T Smart]

Thank you. I did see that care sheet, but I wasn't sure if it applied to hatchling too.

The difference is that hatchlings need more attention than adults. They need daily soaks, higher humidity, and careful monitoring. Besides that, care is the same regarding food, substrate, lights, etc.

I'll echo the above in saying that a larger closed chamber is ideal. This will help maintain humidity, which is key for a healthy/smooth tortoise. Not to mention it will create different temperature zones, in which your little Greek can adjust as desired.

 

[Minority2]

1. Your current halogen spot bulb does not provide UV(B) rays. It only provides UV(A). Halogen spot bulbs project out a very intense heat and are generally not recommended to be used, especially for young tortoises. Purchase a non-colored incandescent flood bulb to use as a basking bulb instead.

2. Your current enclosure is very small. Hatchling tortoises require enough room for different temperature zones. Some owners also believe that small enclosures are one of many contributing factors to stunted growth. I recommend at least a 4 x 2 ft enclosure for hatchling tortoises. Here is an affordable and highly recommended option for a starter enclosure:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/IRIS-Holiday-Tree-Storage-Tote-with-Compartment-Lid-Red/48037027

3. UV(B) lighting. A linear florescent reptile rated bulb would be the most cost effective option for UV(B) lighting. T5 HO bulbs will last longer and require last wattage than other options currently available. Here are two of the most common examples used:
http://www.reptilebasics.com/arcadia-desert-12-uvb/arcadia-d3-12-uvb-t5-bulb-22/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AQU8HAO/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

4. The substrate you're currently using is filled with unsafe material that can cause impaction and or blockages in tortoises if ingested. I strongly suggest getting rid of it and purchasing something else instead. Coco coir and fine grade orchid/fir bark are two highly recommended choices.

5. Make sure you have a flat piece of slate, rock, or ceramic tile for your tortoise to eat off. The reason to do so is because this helps them maintain the level of their beak and claws. It also keeps them from accidentally ingesting substrate when food falls off their feeding dishes.

I'm going to write another post addressing the rest of your concerns. I just wanted you to read this information first. Here are two similar care sheets that will work for Greek tortoises. Please ignore the sand section and do not use sand in any enclosure:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[TortMom6]

1. Your current halogen spot bulb does not provide UV(B) rays. It only provides UV(A). Halogen spot bulbs project out a very intense heat and are generally not recommended to be used, especially for young tortoises. Purchase a non-colored incandescent flood bulb to use as a basking bulb instead.

2. Your current enclosure is very small. Hatchling tortoises require enough room for different temperature zones. Some owners also believe that small enclosures are one of many contributing factors to stunted growth. I recommend at least a 4 x 2 ft enclosure for hatchling tortoises. Here is an affordable and highly recommended option for a starter enclosure:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/IRIS-Holiday-Tree-Storage-Tote-with-Compartment-Lid-Red/48037027

3. UV(B) lighting. A linear florescent reptile rated bulb would be the most cost effective option for UV(B) lighting. T5 HO bulbs will last longer and require last wattage than other options currently available. Here are two of the most common examples used:
http://www.reptilebasics.com/arcadia-desert-12-uvb/arcadia-d3-12-uvb-t5-bulb-22/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AQU8HAO/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

4. The substrate you're currently using is filled with unsafe material that can cause impaction and or blockages in tortoises if ingested. I strongly suggest getting rid of it and purchasing something else instead. Coco coir and fine grade orchid/fir bark are two highly recommended choices.

5. Make sure you have a flat piece of slate, rock, or ceramic tile for your tortoise to eat off. The reason to do so is because this helps them maintain the level of their beak and claws. It also keeps them from accidentally ingesting substrate when food falls off their feeding dishes.

I'm going to write another post addressing the rest of your concerns. I just wanted you to read this information first. Here are two similar care sheets that will work for Greek tortoises. Please ignore the sand section and do not use sand in any enclosure:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

When you say incandescent flood bulb do you mean the ones from pet stores or ones from a hardware store?

 

[Minority2]

I have a Greek tortosie that hatched August 11, 2018 and I want to do everything right for this little guy (or girl). I've read the care sheets from this forum, but is care the same for adults as hatchlings?

I want to know everything about everything for my baby:

Enclosure size and type?
Heat? Ambient temperature and basking?
UVB? Best way to provide it.
Soaking, how often and at what temperature?
Humidity? Should I also have a humid hide?
Substrate/bedding. What is best?
Appropriate water bowl. How big and how deep?
Feeding. Appropriate foods? Feed inside or outside of the enclosure?
Should the enclosure be covered? How does the heat get in if it's covered?
Calcium supplement? How much and how often? With or without D3?
Multivitamin? How much and how often?
Best things to use to measure humidity and heat?
Anything else I might missed?

I would really appreciate your input.

This is his current enclosure. The bulb says it is 25 watts and provides UVB. And there is an under tank heat mat set on a thermostat to not get over 83°F. There is a flat red Rock on top so he can't dig and get right on top of it.View attachment 254117View attachment 254119View attachment 254120View attachment 254121View attachment 254122

Enclosure size and type?

Tortoises require a lot of space to roam and thermoregulate. Bigger will always be better. 4 x 2 ft enclosure for the first 2 years and then an 8 x 4 ft enclosure after that.

Heat? Ambient temperature and basking?

Basking temperature 95-100F. Cool side 70-75F. Night time cool side should stay above 65-60F.

UVB? Best way to provide it.

Linear florescent bulb. Already addressed in my last post.

Soaking, how often and at what temperature?

Daily for 20-30 minutes in warm water. Stick to that schedule for at 2-3 years for best results.

Humidity? Should I also have a humid hide?

Keep humidity level at 70-80% at all times.

Substrate/bedding. What is best?

Addressed in last post.

Appropriate water bowl. How big and how deep?

A heavy and shallow plant saucer is the best option. Make sure it is large enough for the tortoise to self soak in.

Feeding. Appropriate foods? Feed inside or outside of the enclosure?

I've already included links to care sheets that do provide this information. Broad leaf weeds, flowers, and succulents should be the main staple of the diet. Mazuri can be offered by should be limited to once or twice per week. Store bought greens should be kept at a minimum if possible. No fruits.

Should the enclosure be covered? How does the heat get in if it's covered?

Yes enclosures should be covered. Cut sections out of your lid material to allow only enough room for the reflector of your lighting fixtures to rest on. Do not leave any open gaps.

Calcium supplement? How much and how often? With or without D3?

Calcium supplements and D3 is not necessary if tortoises are offered a balanced diet. Cuttlebones and egg shells can be offered instead of supplements.

Multivitamin? How much and how often?

I personally never use this. Someone else may be better suited to answer this.

Best things to use to measure humidity and heat?

A infrared temperature gun and a digital food/weather branded thermometer hygrometer reader with probe.

Anything else I might missed?

When you say incandescent flood bulb do you mean the ones from pet stores or ones from a hardware store?View attachment 254129

The ones from a hardware store. Reptile branded basking bulbs are 3x or more expensive than a regular incandescent flood bulb from a hardware store. You can also get them much cheaper if you order by bulk. A $1.50-1.80+ incandescent flood bulb from home depot vs a $8.99 reptile bulb. I rarely purchase anything reptile/pet branded useless they are absolutely necessary such as UV(B) linear florescent bulbs.

 

[TortMom6]

Tortoises require a lot of space to roam and thermoregulate. Bigger will always be better. 4 x 2 ft enclosure for the first 2 years and then an 8 x 4 ft enclosure after that.

Basking temperature 95-100F. Cool side 70-75F. Night time cool side should stay above 65-60F.

Linear florescent bulb. Already addressed in my last post.

Daily for 20-30 minutes in warm water. Stick to that schedule for at 2-3 years for best results.

Keep humidity level at 70-80% at all times.

Addressed in last post.

A heavy and shallow plant saucer is the best option. Make sure it is large enough for the tortoise to self soak in.

I've already included links to care sheets that do provide this information. Broad leaf weeds, flowers, and succulents should be the main staple of the diet. Mazuri can be offered by should be limited to once or twice per week. Store bought greens should be kept at a minimum if possible. No fruits.

Yes enclosures should be covered. Cut sections out of your lid material to allow only enough room for the reflector of your lighting fixtures to rest on. Do not leave any open gaps.

Calcium supplements and D3 is not necessary if tortoises are offered a balanced diet. Cuttlebones and egg shells can be offered instead of supplements.

I personally never use this. Someone else may be better suited to answer this.

A infrared temperature gun and a digital food/weather branded thermometer hygrometer reader with probe.


The ones from a hardware store. Reptile branded basking bulbs are 3x or more expensive than a regular incandescent flood bulb from a hardware store. You can also get them much cheaper if you order by bulk. A $1.50-1.80+ incandescent flood bulb from home depot vs a $8.99 reptile bulb. I rarely purchase anything reptile/pet branded useless they are absolutely necessary such as UV(B) linear florescent bulbs.

Thank you so much for the help. I am going to do everything you suggested. Get a bigger enclosure, an incandescent flood bulb, uvb lighting strip, change out the bedding, get a ceramic dish for water, I already have a flat stone for feeding but I might get a little bit bigger one. I'll enclose the tub so humidity stays at 70-80 percent, and make sure the cooler side and basking side are at the temperature you listed. I already give him cuttlebone, so I'm good there. And I'll start finding alternatives to store bought food.

 

[Minority2]

Thank you so much for the help. I am going to do everything you suggested. Get a bigger enclosure, an incandescent flood bulb, uvb lighting strip, change out the bedding, get a ceramic dish for water, I already have a flat stone for feeding but I might get a little bit bigger one. I'll enclose the tub so humidity stays at 70-80 percent, and make sure the cooler side and basking side are at the temperature you listed. I already give him cuttlebone, so I'm good there. And I'll start finding alternatives to store bought food.

Tortoises will still track a lot of substrate into their feeding tiles. I clean my indoor ceramic feeding tiles daily because they're always getting dirty from a combination of water, substrate, and bowel movements. I use a feeding saucer placed directly on top of the feeding tile for this very reason. The feeding saucer also helps keep my indoor tortoise's claws stable while they pull and tear their food apart for consuming.

 

[TortMom6]

Tortoises will still track a lot of substrate into their feeding tiles. I clean my indoor ceramic feeding tiles daily because they're always getting dirty from a combination of water, substrate, and bowel movements. I use a feeding saucer placed directly on top of the feeding tile for this very reason. The feeding saucer also helps keep my indoor tortoise's claws stable while they pull and tear their food apart for consuming.

That is a good idea. Thank you.

 

[TortMom6]

1. Your current halogen spot bulb does not provide UV(B) rays. It only provides UV(A). Halogen spot bulbs project out a very intense heat and are generally not recommended to be used, especially for young tortoises. Purchase a non-colored incandescent flood bulb to use as a basking bulb instead.

2. Your current enclosure is very small. Hatchling tortoises require enough room for different temperature zones. Some owners also believe that small enclosures are one of many contributing factors to stunted growth. I recommend at least a 4 x 2 ft enclosure for hatchling tortoises. Here is an affordable and highly recommended option for a starter enclosure:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/IRIS-Holiday-Tree-Storage-Tote-with-Compartment-Lid-Red/48037027

3. UV(B) lighting. A linear florescent reptile rated bulb would be the most cost effective option for UV(B) lighting. T5 HO bulbs will last longer and require last wattage than other options currently available. Here are two of the most common examples used:
http://www.reptilebasics.com/arcadia-desert-12-uvb/arcadia-d3-12-uvb-t5-bulb-22/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AQU8HAO/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

4. The substrate you're currently using is filled with unsafe material that can cause impaction and or blockages in tortoises if ingested. I strongly suggest getting rid of it and purchasing something else instead. Coco coir and fine grade orchid/fir bark are two highly recommended choices.

5. Make sure you have a flat piece of slate, rock, or ceramic tile for your tortoise to eat off. The reason to do so is because this helps them maintain the level of their beak and claws. It also keeps them from accidentally ingesting substrate when food falls off their feeding dishes.

I'm going to write another post addressing the rest of your concerns. I just wanted you to read this information first. Here are two similar care sheets that will work for Greek tortoises. Please ignore the sand section and do not use sand in any enclosure:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

I have got everything to set up tonight, but the UVB lighting and the flood bulb, which I am going to pick up on my way home from work tonight. What are your opinions on the mercury vapor bulbs? My understanding is that it provides heat, light in UVA, and also UVB. Disregarding the cost, are these lamps a good option? [/QUOTE]

 

[Minority2]

I have got everything to set up tonight, but the UVB lighting and the flood bulb, which I am going to pick up on my way home from work tonight. What are your opinions on the mercury vapor bulbs? My understanding is that it provides heat, light in UVA, and also UVB. Disregarding the cost, are these lamps a good option?

[/QUOTE]

I'm afraid cost is going to be present in everyone of my reasons. I will tell you that in my opinion, mercury vapor bulbs are just not as versatile as I would want in a UV(B) bulb.

1. Heat: Mercury vapor bulbs and halogen bulbs will get much hotter than a regular incandescent flood bulb. This additional effect may present problems for many closed chamber setups because a mercury vapor bulb would need to be hung at a much higher height to prevent the temperatures from going past 100F.

2. Coverage: The light coverage of a mercury vapor bulb is limited to the size of the bulb and the diameter of the lamp fixture it occupies. Linear florescent bulbs however, come in several sizes and lengths. A 4 ft linear florescent bulb for example, will cover 2-3x more area of space than a mercury vapor bulb could.

3. Reliability: While mercury vapor bulbs are estimated to have higher bulb lifetime range, these bulbs are known to stop effectively producing UV(B) rays in a matter of months (3-6+) whereas linear florescent bulbs are rated to remain effective for at least a year. Many people with solarmeters like myself, have continued to use linear florescent bulbs well past the manufacture recommended replacement period because these bulbs, while possessing diminished levels of UV(B) can still continue to give out a sufficient amount of UV(B) rays depending on how low you place them.