CDT Left Eye Not Opening

DesertHerd

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Hey all,

I noticed today that one of my CDT Hatchlings left eye is barely opening. I have attached a picture of the left and right eye for reference. I noticed the top layer of their coco coir started to dry up so I misted it today incase that got in his eye. There wasnt anything noticeable in his eye and I have tried flushing it with water. Is there anything else I should do or things to look for. Also what are next steps if it doesnt get better in X amount of time. Thanks in advance for the help!
 

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TeamZissou

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What are you using for lighting? Are you using UVB? What bulb is it, and how high above the substrate is it?
 

Tom

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How many do you have?

The substrate should never be dry. It is much easier to maintain with a closed chamber. Are you using any sand?
 

DesertHerd

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What are you using for lighting? Are you using UVB? What bulb is it, and how high above the substrate is it?
5.0 UVB bar light, about 10-11” above the substrate. If it was a lighting issue wouldnt both eyes be affected, not just the left?
 

DesertHerd

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How many do you have?

The substrate should never be dry. It is much easier to maintain with a closed chamber. Are you using any sand?
I have 5, and yeah I have a closed chamber, I just unclosed it for a day and some of the top dried a little. I now have it misted and closed again. No sand just the coco coir. Should the eye fix itself in time if its just from substrate or is there something I should do other than warm flushing
 

Tom

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I have 5, and yeah I have a closed chamber, I just unclosed it for a day and some of the top dried a little. I now have it misted and closed again. No sand just the coco coir. Should the eye fix itself in time if its just from substrate or is there something I should do other than warm flushing
Hmmmm...

My best guess is that some dust got in there from the dry substrate. I'd do some long warm soaks for a while.

@Yvonne G has some eye drops she frequently recommends.
 

TeamZissou

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5.0 UVB bar light, about 10-11” above the substrate. If it was a lighting issue wouldnt both eyes be affected, not just the left?

Hard to say. Are you able to check the UV Index at tortoise level with a Solarmeter?

Do you see any excessive skin peeling/redness on the neck or other skin areas? Do you give any powders or supplements to the tortoises?

Did the other respiratory issues in your earlier threads resolve?
 

DesertHerd

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Hard to say. Are you able to check the UV Index at tortoise level with a Solarmeter?

Do you see any excessive skin peeling/redness on the neck or other skin areas? Do you give any powders or supplements to the tortoises?

Did the other respiratory issues in your earlier threads resolve?
Hi, now that you mention it his neck does look likes its peeling a little bit underneath. I attached a picture, the edges of the darker skin look like they are peeling with the lighter skin being left underneath. I do some calcium powder once or twice a week. This is the same one that had the possible RI issues but those cleared up quickly after antibiotic drops. This one is also my largest hatchling, he is 84g.

He eats a ton, poops a ton, and basks most of the day.

I also have the UV bar set on the same timer as the heat light so 13 hours a day, should I set it to only be a few hours? Thanks for all the advice
 

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TeamZissou

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Hi, now that you mention it his neck does look likes its peeling a little bit underneath. I attached a picture, the edges of the darker skin look like they are peeling with the lighter skin being left underneath. I do some calcium powder once or twice a week. This is the same one that had the possible RI issues but those cleared up quickly after antibiotic drops. This one is also my largest hatchling, he is 84g.

He eats a ton, poops a ton, and basks most of the day.

I also have the UV bar set on the same timer as the heat light so 13 hours a day, should I set it to only be a few hours? Thanks for all the advice
Tom's recommendation is to run the UV lamp for only 1-2 hours midday, depending on the UVI level, which needs to be measured using a meter for verification. A UVI of 3 is usually the target. Slightly lower can be run for a couple hours longer etc. 13h is probably overkill no matter what the level is. LED lights are good for ambient lighting the rest of the time the UV is not on.

Do you have the actual product info for the supplement? Or, is it pure calcium carbonate?

I do not see any new pictures. The skin on the first picture in your post does look a little red. However, it could be the lighting or a coir stain.
 

DesertHerd

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Tom's recommendation is to run the UV lamp for only 1-2 hours midday, depending on the UVI level, which needs to be measured using a meter for verification. A UVI of 3 is usually the target. Slightly lower can be run for a couple hours longer etc. 13h is probably overkill no matter what the level is. LED lights are good for ambient lighting the rest of the time the UV is not on.

Do you have the actual product info for the supplement? Or, is it pure calcium carbonate?

I do not see any new pictures. The skin on the first picture in your post does look a little red. However, it could be the lighting or a coir stain.
Okay I will adjust the time for the UVB.

“Rep-Cal phosphorus free Calcium with Vitamin D3, ultrafine powder”

I added the picture on the last thread, but I think its just normal “shedding”
 

DesertHerd

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Hmmmm...

My best guess is that some dust got in there from the dry substrate. I'd do some long warm soaks for a while.

@Yvonne G has some eye drops she frequently recommends.
Thanks for the tip, I looked at her previous posts and bought the eye drops to be delivered tomorrow! Will also add some time to his soaks
 

TeamZissou

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Okay I will adjust the time for the UVB.

“Rep-Cal phosphorus free Calcium with Vitamin D3, ultrafine powder”

I added the picture on the last thread, but I think its just normal “shedding”

Weird. It does not look like normal shedding to me. It looks like it could be a vitamin A overdose, which manifests in excessive skin peeling and can also cause eye issues. Yet, the calcium product you're feeding is a good one and does not contain too much of the wrong kind of vitamin A.

I forget, did you take this tort to the vet? Did they give it a vitamin shot?
 

DesertHerd

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Weird. It does not look like normal shedding to me. It looks like it could be a vitamin A overdose, which manifests in excessive skin peeling and can also cause eye issues. Yet, the calcium product you're feeding is a good one and does not contain too much of the wrong kind of vitamin A.

I forget, did you take this tort to the vet? Did they give it a vitamin shot?
Nope no vitamin shot. Thats weird though. not sure what would cause a Vitamin A overdose
 

DesertHerd

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I'm out of ideas. Hopefully it's just dryness and eye drops will help.
I looked at the other hatchlings and it looks like the ones that are bigger/growing faster have darker skin on their face and the darker skin kinda looks reddish brown. I have attached pictures of one of the darker faces vs the lighter face of my smallest hatchling. Could they get a vitamin A overdose from just eating alot? They eat mainly escarole and endive but the bigger guys can eat all day it seems like. Just wasnt sure if a vitamin A overdose could occur from just normal eating. I also added a picture of his leg showing the dark skin peeling and of the neck to show the color difference. I am not sure what is normal, I figured the darker colors cane with the growth since the 3 bigger hatchlings are darker than the smaller 2. Any additional thoughts on their skin color/peeling @Tom @Yvonne G ?
 

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TeamZissou

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Vitamin A overdose cannot occur from eating regular food. Whole food (greens) contains pre-vitamin A carotenoids (like beta carotene) that get converted into vitamin A in the animal. Any leftover carotenoids are excreted. Problems occur when powders (or vitamin shots from the vet) are given that contain (usually way too much) pre-formed vitamin A in the form of retinyl acetate. This causes vitamin A stores in the liver to become overwhelmed, and the vitamin A then goes to other places in the body and beings causing problems, usually as excessive skin peeling and sometimes eye issues. Rep-cal Herptivite is the best supplement available, and it only contains beta carotene as a vitamin A precursor rather than any retinyl acetate.

All but a few reptile supplements on the market contain excessive amounts of retinyl acetate, so overdoses do occur from time to time usually when lots of the wrong supplement has been given to a small hatchling. The amount for a lethal dose of vitamin A has been identified for Hermann's tortoises I believe. This is why it's risky to get a shot at the vet. Tortoises rarely have low vitamin A due to diets high in greens. Turtles may benefit if they are undernourished since they eat mainly carnivorous diets without many greens.

The darker skin you're seeing is most likely staining from the coir. It's hard to tell from the pic if there's excessive skin peeling--maybe in the second and third pics (on the leftmost tort)? I don't know. If the tortoises have never had supplements or vitamin shots then it's unlikely to be vitamin A. Though. the peeling in the pic from post #8 does look excessive to me.
 

Mrs.Jennifer

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Vitamin A overdose cannot occur from eating regular food. Whole food (greens) contains pre-vitamin A carotenoids (like beta carotene) that get converted into vitamin A in the animal. Any leftover carotenoids are excreted. Problems occur when powders (or vitamin shots from the vet) are given that contain (usually way too much) pre-formed vitamin A in the form of retinyl acetate. This causes vitamin A stores in the liver to become overwhelmed, and the vitamin A then goes to other places in the body and beings causing problems, usually as excessive skin peeling and sometimes eye issues. Rep-cal Herptivite is the best supplement available, and it only contains beta carotene as a vitamin A precursor rather than any retinyl acetate.

All but a few reptile supplements on the market contain excessive amounts of retinyl acetate, so overdoses do occur from time to time usually when lots of the wrong supplement has been given to a small hatchling. The amount for a lethal dose of vitamin A has been identified for Hermann's tortoises I believe. This is why it's risky to get a shot at the vet. Tortoises rarely have low vitamin A due to diets high in greens. Turtles may benefit if they are undernourished since they eat mainly carnivorous diets without many greens.

The darker skin you're seeing is most likely staining from the coir. It's hard to tell from the pic if there's excessive skin peeling--maybe in the second and third pics (on the leftmost tort)? I don't know. If the tortoises have never had supplements or vitamin shots then it's unlikely to be vitamin A. Though. the peeling in the pic from post #8 does look excessive to me.
Thank you so much for this thorough explanation. It has helped me a great deal in understanding the role/concerns regarding vitamin A. This is another reason I greatly value this forum and the many years of experience and knowledge of our experts.
 

DesertHerd

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Vitamin A overdose cannot occur from eating regular food. Whole food (greens) contains pre-vitamin A carotenoids (like beta carotene) that get converted into vitamin A in the animal. Any leftover carotenoids are excreted. Problems occur when powders (or vitamin shots from the vet) are given that contain (usually way too much) pre-formed vitamin A in the form of retinyl acetate. This causes vitamin A stores in the liver to become overwhelmed, and the vitamin A then goes to other places in the body and beings causing problems, usually as excessive skin peeling and sometimes eye issues. Rep-cal Herptivite is the best supplement available, and it only contains beta carotene as a vitamin A precursor rather than any retinyl acetate.

All but a few reptile supplements on the market contain excessive amounts of retinyl acetate, so overdoses do occur from time to time usually when lots of the wrong supplement has been given to a small hatchling. The amount for a lethal dose of vitamin A has been identified for Hermann's tortoises I believe. This is why it's risky to get a shot at the vet. Tortoises rarely have low vitamin A due to diets high in greens. Turtles may benefit if they are undernourished since they eat mainly carnivorous diets without many greens.

The darker skin you're seeing is most likely staining from the coir. It's hard to tell from the pic if there's excessive skin peeling--maybe in the second and third pics (on the leftmost tort)? I don't know. If the tortoises have never had supplements or vitamin shots then it's unlikely to be vitamin A. Though. the peeling in the pic from post #8 does look excessive to me.
Update: I got the eye drops that @Yvonne G recommend and also used tweezers to see if I could dislodge anything that may be stuck and it looks like some cococoir got into his inner eyelid and the eye seems to have swelled to fight that. I was able to pull it out as well as a piece of shedding that was stuck in his eye. This was all last night and as of this morning it looks like all the swelling has gone done and his eye is back to about 80% open vs the maybe 30% yesterday. I will continue to monitor, use drops, and soaks. Thanks everyone for the help and info!
 

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