Chaco Indentification

[ATXguy]

Howdy.... Seems a lot of buzz going on lately regarding Chaco torts. Can't seem to find much info on how to PROPERLY identify this species when one is fortunate enough to come across one. Can anyone spell out specific features that we can all take note of? Specifically telling the difference at hatchling or yearling stage in comparison to Sulcatas? Really would like to try to help the breeding efforts of this species. Thanks all!

 

[Yvonne G]

They look a little bit like a yellow-ish desert tortoise with sulcata spurs on the front legs.

 

[poison]

what do you mean spurs on the front legs?

 

[dmmj]

what do you mean spurs on the front legs?

Ever see a sulcata? they have pronounced spurs on their legs.

 

[poison]

so then mine isnt a chaco?

 

[dmmj]

Has anyone ID'ed it, they are often miss ID'ed

 

[poison]

there was a hole thread on it lol http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-split-My-sulcata-is-a-Chaco#axzz23I04JVZJ

 

[ATXguy]

See... This is y I wanted us to discuss known traits that will help us all avoid confusion and misidentification of these guys! Lol let the discussion continue. Can anyone with experience list traits one by one for us and how they r different from Sulcatas? One I have heard of is a rounded off version of spurs similar to Sulcatas. What other ones are dead give aways for identification?

 

[Tom]

I don't know how to put it into words. It's a visual thing. Usually when I first see a Chaco, I think it's a small sulcata, but then I notice it has some features similar to a CDT. To me, they look like a cross between a sulcata and a CDT. I don't know exactly how to describe that with words though. I have to look them over and compare mental notes on known features of known species, and I usually decide Chaco based on process of elimination. I can always tell its NOT a sulcata right away, but because I am not familiar enough with chacos, I have to really consider what it is. If it looks a lot like a small sulcata, but it's not a small sulcata, and it sorta looks like it has some CDT features too, then it's a Chaco.

Does this help at all...? Maybe not, huh?

 

[tortadise]

Its sometimes very very difficult until they reach adulthood. When chacos are hatchlings they will appear almost identical to a sulcata with a little different facial characteristics, and scute coloration. Babies tend to have a brown spot or speckle in the middle of the carapace scutes kinda like a leopard tortoise. There heads are more to an abrupt point and much darker(sometimes not). The key factor is the knowing the age of the animal, or hopefully seeing one that is a classic chaco look. They have rather large heads in proportion to their size, and when adults have a very pronounced "parrot like" beak. The only problem is when they are offered for sale usually they are a baby or a large adult. So if you get one in between it can sometimes be very difficult to identify. They can have rounded scales on their legs, or sometimes rounded with pointy scales on their legs. Sometimes have big bug eyes, sometimes has small sulcata like eyes. Sometimes they end up the exact same color as a sulcata(some people call those "hypo" chacos). They are very rare in captivity but are around. Its just they seem to fall into being overlooked by people and end up in pet stores or someone you has no idea that is isnt a sulcata. They have wonderful personalities so usually are kept for pleasure. The breeding is somewhat difficult. Alot of breeders try and breed them too soon which ends up in broken eggs, or egg bound and dying. The female is the larger of the two sexes. Males reaching 5.5" and females up to 9"(which is HUGE for a female). They lay very large eggs so they have to be of good size to even risk them not having complications. The incubation is also one of the longest next to pyxis plaunacauda and oblonga. an average of 250-370 days it can take, depending on how many diapause sessions are required. Also if your wanting to breed and get eggs and have no Idea of a diapause, that adds to the difficulty. I have incubated my chaco eggs year after year having no knowledge or any information on the species, even for the 10 years I have kept them. I just now figured and got some good intel on how do incubate succusfully. So enough of my blabbing. Would love to see more people get into this species, but they do have some requirments MUCH different than sulcatas.

 

[Tom]

Tell us more Kelly. What are the requirements that differ from a sulcata? Did you raise any of yours from hatchlings? Is anyone successfully getting hatchlings?

 

[tortadise]

Well last years eggs I think are no good. My female has been nesting and diggin in the dirt. So fingered crossed.

Im gonna have to type up an ordeal on the chaco I suppose, at my experiances with them over the years. The main difficulty really is they look a lot like a sulcata. Im gonne have to take some time on this one, and get back to yah. When I can spend some time typing it all out.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Here are some recent photos of my Taco princess:





I'll get some close ups of carapace and plastron tomorrow when she has had her beauty sleep.

 

[tortadise]

OK I will try to not type a HUGE page on my views of it.

1.The scales on a chacos legs are going to be more rounded, they can be somewhat pointy like a sulcata when they are young but grow out of the points into more rounded large armored like scales. Front and rear legs.

2.They will get scales on their skin in between their tail and hind leds. Where sulcatas have there spurs, chacos will have nub like spurs covered in scale (as an adult) a juvinile or baby will have semi spurs.

3.Typical coloration is light cream-rust brown, with dark brown in between scutes. The color can vary however, Some specimens can marble like a redfoot, and some specimens can be very very light and sand colored. Typically are solid brown. hatchlings will have brown in between scutes on plastron. Sulcatas will be solid cream color.

4.Hatchlings will have much darker skin pigment of brown than that of a sulcata.

5.Hatchling scutes will have a brown dot and sometimes pastel brown on the carapace scutes, where sulcatas typically are solid cream colored, and begin to brown as they age.

6.The humerial scutes on the plastron of chacos will be squared ounce hitting juvenile age. Sulcatas will diagonal. Sometimes chacos will have diagonals but not in the specimens I have kept or had.

7.They have a larger head than a sulcata, and when adulthood is reached they have a more pronounced "parrot like" beak.

8.Chacos tails are very very small, and males and females are very difficult to sex at juvenile age, and sometimes difficult to sex even at adulthood.

9.Chacos are much smaller



Its really hard to describe it. They really are so much like a sulcata in descriptive aspects. You just have to really know the species I guess. But if you had a 5" sulcata and a 5" chaco you could really tell the difference.

---

Here is a group from eastern argentina I had few years back, Maybe this will help alot more.

And the large male(well large for this species 5 3/8") is from paraguay.

 

[poison]

why is the chaco that your holdings plastron way different then the others?

 

[tortadise]

Hes really old. And those were youngins. 2-6 years old. And like said earlier they can really show a magnitude of different colors. Kinda like yours is very light. But traditionally just brownish. Theres a member here with one from very far southern brazil actual that is almost black and marbled. He disnt know what it was, and ended up being a chaco.

 

[poison]

is there a thread about it?