Claimed dandelion health benefits, fact or fiction?

Stoneman

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I have a couple of Indian star tortoises I acquired that I am concerned have bad kidneys. I read in the book titled Star Tortoises that dandelion have good benefits to help the kidneys in some way or another.

Has this theory been tested at all? When I was reading this the chapter also claimed to do all kinds of magical health benefits with other food types. The references appeared to be more from psuedo-science "herbal remedy" type sources. I do not want to flat out discredit it. That is why I am asking all of you.

If it does help, does anyone know how it does so? Can you provide me with any links or peer reviewed studies or articles supporting these claims?

Thanks for all your time,

Cory
 

Stoneman

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Here is some info I found in a quick search.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18991571/

Is increasing phosphorus common practice in treatment of renal failure in tortoises? I thought it was the opposite direction. To reduce phosphorous because poor diet led to the build up of phosphorous in the kidneys.
 

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Bee62

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I know that damaged kidneys are unable to pass phosphorus out of the body. I would never increase phosphorus.
 

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zovick

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It seems to me that the author is selling the product. Does he own or is he employed by a company which makes it? There are references to studies and articles, but one would have to do a heck of a lot of research to find them, since the specific pages and issues of the journals, etc., are not noted. It all looks like fake science to me.
 
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Kapidolo Farms

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The high % of the compound in this comes from puncture vine, a weed many tortoises species in Africa eat as part of their natural forage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulus_terrestris

It is a common road side weed, and there are many vendors that sell seeds as well.

It will take some time to read and digest much of the content you have posted here.
 

Tom

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The high % of the compound in this comes from puncture vine, a weed many tortoises species in Africa eat as part of their natural forage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulus_terrestris

It is a common road side weed, and there are many vendors that sell seeds as well.

I've looked into this one several times, but I am reluctant to grow it because it is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD news if it ever goes to seed. Those things are Nasty with a capital N. Seems like such a good food, but those goat heads puncture bicycle tires, shoes, my skin, my flip flops… They are truly a force to be reckoned with. They occur and grow wild on the rifle range at my gun club. You walk down to check your target and when you get back the the line your shoes have a layer of these things on the bottom and you walk on them until you take your shoe off and remove them all with pliers. I've debated growing it and just feeding it all out as soon as I seed seed heads forming, but I know I get lazy or busy and many a tortoise plant has gone to seed at my place.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I've looked into this one several times, but I am reluctant to grow it because it is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD news if it ever goes to seed. Those things are Nasty with a capital N. Seems like such a good food, but those goat heads puncture bicycle tires, shoes, my skin, my flip flops… They are truly a force to be reckoned with. They occur and grow wild on the rifle range at my gun club. You walk down to check your target and when you get back the the line your shoes have a layer of these things on the bottom and you walk on them until you take your shoe off and remove them all with pliers. I've debated growing it and just feeding it all out as soon as I seed seed heads forming, but I know I get lazy or busy and many a tortoise plant has gone to seed at my place.
100% agree with the treacherousness. I've grown it in pots and just pay attention. The Pancakes like it.

I have to grow most edibles in pots off the ground or rabbits will get it all. I recall you have raised beds and I plan to create some at some point.

I only fill large pots 3/4 full of soil, so they stay inside the pot.
 

Stoneman

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I would not give any supplements without knowing what they could do and without knowing what your tort is suffering from. All supplements can do harm when overdosed or given a sick animal.
Yep, that's why I am asking if anyone knows anything about what you just said but in other words. Dandelion is one of the most common recommendations for tortoises to eat, and some reference materials state that they are beneficial for some conditions I am concerned about. The difference between me supplementing and someone else proving it through a natural food source is not a question of what but a question of how. Also I am not jumping into doing any unsubstantiated medical experiments on my tortoises unless I can see the peer reviewed medical reports confirming efficacy of the drug. I am skeptical of the claims, and that is essentially why I brought the conversation to light in the first place.
 

Stoneman

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I know that damaged kidneys are unable to pass phosphorus out of the body. I would never increase phosphorus.
Yes, this concept seems very strange to me too. I was wondering why a vet would ever see this as the right course of action. I am not a vet and did not go to medical school so I am in no position to tell a vet they are wrong.
 

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Cory, I get it that you are concerned for your tortoises, but I am having a difficult time following what is going on.

1) what brings you to the conclusion in your first post of this thread that any part of the urinary track is 'damaged'? Is that a vets diagnosis, a story from the previous owner, the result of some urine that you have seen from them, or what exactly?

2) putting faith in a concentrated herbal remedy that has sketchy background information on it's effectiveness is a path to disappointment IMO. Many plants have a huge variety of compound in them that are not in say, a Mazuri pellet, that contribute to good health in all animals. Many of these compounds are not "essential" yet when part of a varied diet allow one tortoise to out-compete others. That's all part of the TFO choir that wide variety is good.

3)The liver and kidneys work in combination to clear the blood of metabolic waste (among many functions) to put a new burden on them in the form of any concentrated anything is probably not a good move. This is when the more plain diet is better as it provide sufficient nutrition to heal, not grow, as healing is a 'catching up' activity for a body.

I can empathize with your frustration.
 

ascott

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I have a couple of Indian star tortoises I acquired that I am concerned have bad kidneys. I read in the book titled Star Tortoises that dandelion have good benefits to help the kidneys in some way or another.

Has this theory been tested at all? When I was reading this the chapter also claimed to do all kinds of magical health benefits with other food types. The references appeared to be more from psuedo-science "herbal remedy" type sources. I do not want to flat out discredit it. That is why I am asking all of you.

If it does help, does anyone know how it does so? Can you provide me with any links or peer reviewed studies or articles supporting these claims?

Thanks for all your time,

Cory

Dandelion are awesome....the tortoise will consume the flowers and get giddy....likely a little like when we consume alcohol....the dandelion flower, greens are super good for you, your tortoise and have great nutritional value....as with any plant, do not feed only one item...vary the offerings....however, if I had to pick one food that I was only allowed to feed the tortoise, it would absolutely be dandelion flower and leaves.....in that order....and while you are watching your tortoise consume it up like crazy, you can make your own dandelion wine.....I suck at attaching links,...so I know if you google "dandelion nutritional value" you will see the great stuff...keep in mind that while there are lots of good stuff in it....the animal should have plenty of access to water at all times to help the body naturally clear itself out..
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Dandelion are awesome....the tortoise will consume the flowers and get giddy....likely a little like when we consume alcohol....the dandelion flower, greens are super good for you, your tortoise and have great nutritional value....as with any plant, do not feed only one item...vary the offerings....however, if I had to pick one food that I was only allowed to feed the tortoise, it would absolutely be dandelion flower and leaves.....in that order....and while you are watching your tortoise consume it up like crazy, you can make your own dandelion wine.....I suck at attaching links,...so I know if you google "dandelion nutritional value" you will see the great stuff...keep in mind that while there are lots of good stuff in it....the animal should have plenty of access to water at all times to help the body naturally clear itself out..
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/w...-published-nutrient-list.161833/#post-1556210
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Hi...I tried to open that link for the dandelion...but said not available??? Dang.

it works for me, here is the content.

Dandelion greens

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/2960?manu=&fgcd=&ds=

It is true that store dandelions and 'found in the backyard' are different, but 'technically' the same species. What's in your backyard has adapted to your specific environment (meaning climate, lawn watering patterns, and even to some extent your mowing frequency). Those that are cultivated have adapted to that care regime. I have not found any tortoises to seek them out in preference to other greens, but Testudo types are extremely attracted to the flowers.
 
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