Clarity Please: Proper enclosure for high humidity hatchlings like the Indian/Sri Lankan/Radiated, etc.

[TommyTheV]

Hi everyone,

Lots of threads / blogs out there and even YouTube videos from what appears to be reputable keepers/breeders but could not find anything in dept regarding how much / how long they need to be kept in this high humid enclosures.

As hatchlings keeping them indoor is preferred - especially overnight - but does that mean they have to be in high humid enclosure 24/7 for the first year of their life?

I am picking up a hatchling trio of the "TRUE" Sri Lankan Star that are temperature sexed next week and I am putting together the enclosure for them. I already bought 2 types, a DIY enclosed high humid enclosure (https://www.sterilite.com/product-page.html?product=17641704) for overnight and an outdoor one (https://www.chewy.com/repti-zoo-sli...cgLs7KWERzwpmmfSyL97NWp_FYDT1x5xoCidMQAvD_BwE) for the daytime.

I only plan to keep the hatchlings indoor in the enclosed high humid (80%) from 6PM - 10AM. I live in a coastal area so I plan to take them out after the morning haze clears so they get natural daylight from 10AM - 6PM.

Essentially that is 8 hours in a lower humidity & whatever the environment temperature is, and 16 hours in high humidity and temperature controlled environment.

Would that be okay or they need to stay in a 24/7 regulated humidity and temperature for the first year of their life?

Thanks for any clarification/insight

 

[wellington]

@Tom can help you out. But at they are hatchlings, that is too long to be outside for a while. More like 1/2 hour to an hour is long enough for about the first year then it can extend longer as they age. Tom can explain better.

 

[TommyTheV]

Thanks.

Any other feedback guys?

 

[G-stars]

I keep and breed all 3 star species or sub species.

This applies to certain parts of Southern California, not all since there are desert areas that are too dry and hot. Ideally you want to keep them indoors pretty much 24/7 as hatchlings up until they are around 4 inches or so. At least that’s what I do. After that I move them outdoors all day and bring them in at night.

 

[TommyTheV]

I keep and breed all 3 star species or sub species.

This applies to certain parts of Southern California, not all since there are desert areas that are too dry and hot. Ideally you want to keep them indoors pretty much 24/7 as hatchlings up until they are around 4 inches or so. At least that’s what I do. After that I move them outdoors all day and bring them in at night.

Awesome! Glad to know. San Diego’s weather is pretty moderate.

I’m more concerned with having to keep the hatchlings in a closed tub 24/7 for the 1st year because that would mean I’ll barely get to interact with them.

I’ve seen so many different setups but none specify if the tub (all closed up) is only for overnight (indoors) or can I put them in a open air enclosure throughout the day (also indoors)?

I don’t want to end up with any pyramiding as don’t these guys need constant 80% and 80F throughout their 1st year? I can mimic that inside a tub but not in an open enclosure.

 

[G-stars]

It is recommended for hatchlings to be in a controlled environment 24/7. Only way to do that is to keep them indoors in a closed enclosure with constant heat and humidity.

 

[Tom]

Hi everyone,

I am picking up a hatchling trio of the "TRUE" Sri Lankan Star that are temperature sexed next week and I am putting together the enclosure for them. I already bought 2 types, a DIY enclosed high humid enclosure (https://www.sterilite.com/product-page.html?product=17641704) for overnight and an outdoor one (https://www.chewy.com/repti-zoo-sliding-doors-screen/dp/327759?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=18806583589&utm_content=REPTI ZOO&utm_term=&gclid=CjwKCAjwgqejBhBAEiwAuWHioA-Vjj2PYudIVij8W5HRUEcgLs7KWERzwpmmfSyL97NWp_FYDT1x5xoCidMQAvD_BwE) for the daytime.

In India, the "dry" season typically features humidity from 60-80%. The "wet" or "monsoon" season has humidity typically from 80-100%. The word "dry" here and there means two very different things.

As you are finding, almost all info from almost all sources is just plain wrong. We've been doing it wrong for decades, and the same wrong info is passed from generation to generation. This wrong info is based in incorrect assumptions of how they live in the wild. You can find unlimited sources on YT, FB, all over the internet, vets, pet stores, etc... all parroting the same old wrong info. You are not new to tortoises, but you are new to our site here. Give this a read through once or twice for more insight:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

For over a decade, I have been doing side-by-side experiments with clutch mates to figure out what works best and why. Its been a long process with many surprises and input from many sources around the world. I don't have to guess or speculate. I don't have to make assumptions about the wild, or invent details that don't exist. I KNOW first hand what keeping them outside all day will yield, and what keeping them inside all day will do. Outside all day, they pyramid and grow slower. Inside all day in a closed chamber, they grow three times faster on the same or less food, and they grow smoother. I've seen this over and over all over our own country and all over the world. This includes humid climates like South Florida, so don't think your awesome SD weather makes this different for you vs. me or G-stars. Babies in the wild do not walk around out in the open dry air. They hide. They hide very well deep down in the plant bases and nooks and crannies, or they die. An exposed, visible wild baby is a dead baby.

I could go on an on, and if I need to I will, but this research has already been done. Most 'internet experts" have never done this research and just repeat what they were taught and what they have done, while insulting and dismissing the people who know better than them from extensive first hand experience.
Both of the enclosures you linked are not suitable. The tub is too shallow, and the tank is too low and too open. You need a proper closed chamber made of expanded PVC sheet material, and all of the heating and lighting needs to be inside. It needs to have a thick layer of fine grade orchid bark, and lots of potted plants from them to hide in and nibble on.

My general rule of thumb is one hour of access to sunshine per inch of tortoise, a few times per week. The more time a baby spends outside, the worse it is for them. They simply thrive and do better when kept indoors in the correct warm humid conditions and stable temperatures. Take a damp sponge, or an earthworm, and set it out in the sun all day. What happens to it? That is what is happening to your baby too. Outside all day in favorable weather with a proper heated shelter, is great for adults, but not for babies. You can find lots of Internet personalities that will tell you otherwise, but you can learn this lesson now, BEFORE the damage is done, or you will surely learn it after.

Also, all babies are going to be terrified of you. Having them outside and exposed to the elements or in an open enclosure indoors will not change that. It will make it worse. Having them tucked away in a well planted enclosure with shade and cover will make them feel the most secure and relaxed. Some elegans never come around. They are known to be relatively shy in comparison to other species. This is why I chose platynota instead. The babies all all shy, just like every species, but the adults are not. They are awesome!

Questions are welcome. Challenge any of this. Argue your points. Feel free to ask for clarification.

Mark went from being a self-proclaimed student of mine, to becoming a mentor of mine. Give his care sheet a read too. This guy has also done the work, and taken it farther than I have:

How to raise a Healthy Star Tortoise.

Stars, Leopards, and Sulcata tortoises are almost identical in care requirements, especially their first few years to get them started properly and thriving. These tortoises, their first few years, will fail to thrive and be active, unless you provide proper heat, humidity, and light. Leopard...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Yvonne G]

When you say, ". . . interact with them." what exactly are you planning? Baby tortoises aren't a species you can do much with other than sitting there and watching them. The glass enclosure in your second picture would be good for that. You just need to fit a piece of plexi over the screen ( with the lights/heat inside)

 

[TommyTheV]

I keep and breed all 3 star species or sub species.

This applies to certain parts of Southern California, not all since there are desert areas that are too dry and hot. Ideally you want to keep them indoors pretty much 24/7 as hatchlings up until they are around 4 inches or so. At least that’s what I do. After that I move them outdoors all day and bring them in at night.

Awesome! Glad to know. San Diego’s weather is pretty moderate.

I’m more concerned with having to keep the hatchlings in a closed tub 24/7 for the 1st year because that would mean I’ll barely get to interact with them.

I’ve seen so many different setups but none specify if the tub (all closed up) is only for overnight (indoors) or can I put them in a open air enclosure throughout the day (also indoors)?

I don’t want to end up with any pyramiding as don’t these guys need constant 80% and 80F throughout their 1st year? I can mimic that inside a tub but not in an open enclosurej

 

[TommyTheV]

Hi guys,

Thank you for everyone's direct input. Yeah I will not take them outside till past the 1st year or if they've outgrown their enclosure. I have finalized on this based on all the reads from here. Just have to make sure the openings are properly covered to retain humidity in the 80% range and with it's size I can add a T5HO UVB linear fixture

https://www.chewy.com/repti-zoo-gla...dUpDroizIsatGJQLhIMbONF3oNsj-NzBoCEi8QAvD_BwE