Cleaning tips from a microbiologist

[Talka]

Asked my professor, based on what microbes typically grow on tortoises, what would be the best way to clean Sheldon's dishes.
A 1:1:1 mix of water, vinegar, and rubbing alcohol will kill any bacteria, apparently. No need for bleach or soap.
Soak dirty dishes in the above mixture at high temp for 15 minutes.

I was interested in this because antibacterial soaps sometimes contain carcinogens, and while they're fine in small doses and won't harm us, I'm paranoid about my tort. Also, vinegar and alcohol are cheap!

 

[Jacqui]

I always wonder (and never can recall the correct answer) is there a difference between which one of the vinegars you use? Does it work, if you don't have the high temps? Another thing I wonder about, since I also take all the tubs outside to wash them out in the yard and the water is only cold out there.

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

Good to know, since I've always used bleach. Not anymore!

 

[Talka]

In the vinegar, what matters is that it's acetic acid (which all vinegar contains), so plain cheap vinegar works. What you're looking for is to lower the pH to kill bacteria. Bleach works in the opposite way, to kill bacteria with high pH.
The alcohol helps penetrate tougher cell walls and denature the proteins inside, basically killing bacteria from the inside out.

Higher temperatures aid alcohol in penetrating cells more quickly, but with a 15 minute soaking the temp isn't critical. If you're doing a quicker cleaning, higher temperature would be advantageous.

Bleach is fine to clean with, it's just more damaging to the environment when you dump it, it's harsher on the skin, and it's not good to breathe in.

 

[wellington]

WOW, very interesting and great info to have. Thank you so much for thinking to ask and for sharing with all us, kuddos

 

[Redstrike]

Thanks for sharing, great to know!

 

[mainey34]

Thank you for the tip.

 

[greyshirt]

Higher temperatures aid alcohol in penetrating cells more quickly, but with a 15 minute soaking the temp isn't critical. If you're doing a quicker cleaning, higher temperature would be advantageous.

Thanks for the info,sounds great. I like like to be as organic a possible, and this formula is great, but can you clarify higher temperature?

 

[Jacqui]

Only major downside I can see is this combination would end up being very costly.

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

I was about to ask...can you mix up this solution and just have it in a jug or bottle always on standby? Or would that render the cleaning properties inert?

 

[MichiLove]

Thanks for sharing!!

 

[jtrux]

From my limited knowlegde of chemistry I think you would be safe mixing it. Since the alcohol is not considered a base it wouldn't nuetralize the vinegar, just shake it up before each use.

 

[EricIvins]

Why not just use Novalsan, which is both a Bactricide and Virucide? 2 Tablespoons in a gallon of water and you are set for weeks......

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

1:1:1 mix of water, vinegar, and rubbing alcohol

Great information!

 

[Talka]

The solution can sit around for weeks no problem. Wal Mart has jugs of alcohol and vinegar for under $2 each. Not sure about Europe. They are fine to mix, don't interact with each other, and can go in a spray bottle too. I guess for my one tortoise it's cheap, but if I had 10 torts I might want to use bleach, since 2 gallons of it often go for $2 here and you end up diluting it to use it anyway.

From what I've found, Nolvasan seems to kill a broad range of bacteria as well as some fungi (though testing on fungi has not been extensive). We had a discussion in class about antibacterials like Nolvasan and others. It's an antiseptic, so it can kill bacteria, but that is not its only function. Antiseptics also prevent growth of existing bacteria. It could possibly be less effective than a straight-up disinfectant, especially since it is designed to work on living tissue. But I don't think anyone has tested it yet on inanimate objects like tortoise plates.

A temperature hot enough to kill any microbe on your tort's enclosure is 45 C. However, warm water will still help the alcohol react faster.

 

[llnguyen]

Thanks for the tips Talka!

After spraying and cleaning with the solution you suggested, is it ok to leave it or it's necessary to rinse off with water?

Thanks!

 

[lynnedit]

As far as rinsing, the rubbing alcohol would likely evaporate. Vinegar is harmless, but won't hurt to rinse it off to get rid of the odor.

The white vinegar comes in gallon containers and is the least expensive.

 

[Yellow Turtle]

In the vinegar, what matters is that it's acetic acid (which all vinegar contains), so plain cheap vinegar works. What you're looking for is to lower the pH to kill bacteria. Bleach works in the opposite way, to kill bacteria with high pH.
The alcohol helps penetrate tougher cell walls and denature the proteins inside, basically killing bacteria from the inside out.

Higher temperatures aid alcohol in penetrating cells more quickly, but with a 15 minute soaking the temp isn't critical. If you're doing a quicker cleaning, higher temperature would be advantageous.

Bleach is fine to clean with, it's just more damaging to the environment when you dump it, it's harsher on the skin, and it's not good to breathe in.

These are correct information. What matters most to kill germs are concentration, temperature and contact time, higher is better for each item.

Alcohol itself is good enough to sanitize the dish. Adding vinegar might not be necessary, because vinegar only effective if it's got "enough" contact time with the bacteria. Vinegar as mentioned above, only lowering pH thus creating environment which is not suitable for some bacteria and especially not effective against salmonella. If you only rub the dish then use alcohol is enough and I don't like the left over odor from vinegar. I think it might affect my torts' appetite

When I get time to soak my dish, I still get more preference toward bleach than alcohol. I believe it is more effective and cheaper solution to kill bacteria. Sodium hypo is cheapest bleach and widely used in house. It is basically pretty safe to use and has been used as water treatment and swimming pool disinfectant for ages. It can be a much stronger disinfectant than alcohol if used in higher concentration. Hydrogen peroxide is also bleach type solution, very effective disinfectant and environmental friendly, but it is more expensive than hypo.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I'm curious to know what you may say about plain clear ammonia. I use it a great deal, always outside for ventilation.

We used it extensively at one work place on plastic amphibian-enclosures as it would volatilize away, leaving no residue in the plastic. The reason behind its use was so that a novel complex cleaner would not seep into the plastic, then out again onto the frog, or salamander.

Items were first washed to remove gross debris, then thoroughly sprayed with ammonia, the ammonia was allowed to dry on the surface, then rinse again, let air dry.

We experimented with vinegar and hydrogen peroxide in combination as well, but stayed with the ammonia for simplicity of use.

Will

 

[greyshirt]

In the vinegar, what matters is that it's acetic acid (which all vinegar contains), so plain cheap vinegar works. What you're looking for is to lower the pH to kill bacteria. Bleach works in the opposite way, to kill bacteria with high pH.
The alcohol helps penetrate tougher cell walls and denature the proteins inside, basically killing bacteria from the inside out.

Higher temperatures aid alcohol in penetrating cells more quickly, but with a 15 minute soaking the temp isn't critical. If you're doing a quicker cleaning, higher temperature would be advantageous.

Bleach is fine to clean with, it's just more damaging to the environment when you dump it, it's harsher on the skin, and it's not good to breathe in.

These are correct information. What matters most to kill germs are concentration, temperature and contact time, higher is better for each item.

Alcohol itself is good enough to sanitize the dish. Adding vinegar might not be necessary, because vinegar only effective if it's got "enough" contact time with the bacteria. Vinegar as mentioned above, only lowering pH thus creating environment which is not suitable for some bacteria and especially not effective against salmonella. If you only rub the dish then use alcohol is enough and I don't like the left over odor from vinegar. I think it might affect my torts' appetite

When I get time to soak my dish, I still get more preference toward bleach than alcohol. I believe it is more effective and cheaper solution to kill bacteria. Sodium hypo is cheapest bleach and widely used in house. It is basically pretty safe to use and has been used as water treatment and swimming pool disinfectant for ages. It can be a much stronger disinfectant than alcohol if used in higher concentration. Hydrogen peroxide is also bleach type solution, very effective disinfectant and environmental friendly, but it is more expensive than hypo.

Bleach (Chlorine) is damaging to the environment as well as deadly to all living things, depending on quantity. So is ammonia. That's why chlorine is used in drinking water and swimming pools, it kills everything in the water. But that doesn't mean it's good for you. If you drink the alcohol it can kill you also, but it is also organic and dissipates rapidly. You should wear a respirator when working with ammonia and chlorine. All of them kill everything, but the water, alcohol, vinegar solution is not nearly as dangerous as the others. And is completely biologically friendly. Just my two cents.