CLUELESS still...

[egyptiandan]

Well I hate to beat a "dead horse" Candy , but the 2 papers I've read about breeding K.erosa (Honolulu Zoo and Ashley Wood) have one thing in common. Both times the breeding and egg laying occured with just a pair together. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm I see a common thread here
I've always said groups of K.erosa and K.homeana don't do well. I have a feeling no one will get eggs until they either set-up just pairs or house the animals singlely. It's only my opinion , but we will see.

Danny

 

[Redfoot NERD]

THANKS everybody!!!

Candy - when dealing with WC anything it's always a "crap-shoot"! Instincts(?) just told me to do what I did/have done when I received these. One individual called me to tell me he was down to 1 out of 10 that survived.. bummer!

Some [ breeders of whatever species ] have mentioned to me that moving to the other side of town put their established 'breeding' group out-of-sync for a year or two. My alpha Guyana redfoot laid less than 20% of her 'normal' annual amount last year! This year so far she has laid more.. with most likely a couple more clutches for this laying season - you never know!

My 'erosa started breeding last JULY! Bill Zovickian and I discussed the need to create a "nest-box" for their enclosure because their 'gestation' period [ time it takes from breeding to creating the eggs inside.. before they are laid ] has been long enough - we think it most likely has been long enough.. we simply don't know. Then another source says it takes 5 MONTHS to incubate.. we simply don't know.

The females ARE retaining weight - is that from 'maintaining' through the 'lean' winter months or gaining weight because of egg development inside? We simply don't know ----------- I will be providing a "nest-box".. be assured!

Hope this helps.. did I mention we simply don't know?

Terry K

BTW.. Thanks Dee - I got this "knower" in me that tells me you are right.. I'm blessed!

 

[Candy]

Jacqui you said you and Terry got a shipment. Where did they come from and how many did you get?

Danny do you have any Erosa or Homes and have you ever tried breeding them?

 

[egyptiandan]

I've had both Candy and have had K.homeana lay fertile eggs for me. I had the eggs cooking at to hot a temperature (86 to 88F), when they want a temperature of 80 to 84F. So the high temperatures killed the embryos. I kept my pair seperately and only introduced the male to the female for breeding.
Unfortunately I had to down size the year after they laid and all my humid loving species had to go. I haven't gotten back into them since. This all happened in the late 90's

Danny

 

[-EJ]

Ok... that's kinda counting chickens... don't you think. You as well as anyone who deals in wild caught tortoises knows that they breed when stressed in captivity.

You produce some babies 2 or three years in a row under controlled conditions... congratulations would be in order.

...not to **** on your fire or anything...

O.K. --- no one.. knows anyone.. who has ever hatched K. erosa -- in the UNITED STATES!

NERD

 

[pyxistort]

Hi Danny,
Could you let me know where you find the information about temperature for homeana? Few people from yahoo group suggest much higher temperature to incubate homeana. I have been had about 8 eggs from my homeana every year, but I haven't been able to hatch any. I incubate 86F day and 83F night.

Scott

I've had both Candy and have had K.homeana lay fertile eggs for me. I had the eggs cooking at to hot a temperature (86 to 88F), when they want a temperature of 80 to 84F. So the high temperatures killed the embryos. I kept my pair seperately and only introduced the male to the female for breeding.
Danny

 

[egyptiandan]

The only temperatures I can find for K.homeana is from a German zoo whose incubation temperatures ranged from 81 to 90F. The Honolulu zoo hatched out K.erosa at a temperature of 83F.
Do you know if the eggs are fertile?, but stop developing.

Danny

 

[pyxistort]

The eggs are chalking, but no further development. Not sure if there is anything I can improve it.

Scott

Do you know if the eggs are fertile?, but stop developing.

Danny

 

[Jacqui]

Elizabeth has had several clutches hatching and she does this for temp: "Temp - fluctuation between 73F-87F. Until I saw blood vessels I removed the egg chamber from the heat source nightly to allow cooling. Necessary? Beneficial? Probably not, but what the heck. Temp is now close to constant 86.4F." Works for her at least.

 

[egyptiandan]

So she does the nightly dip in temperatures (73 F night 87F day) until she sees veins and than she does constant tmperatures of 86.4 F. Am I reading that right.

Danny

 

[Jacqui]

I am thinking it was those two being the highest and lowest temps, not maybe the nights were the 73 and then up to the high during the day. She doesn't use an incubator, but rather just a ziplock unit.

Here is what she had written:
Timeline:
Eggs layed 3/27/09
Eggs started chalking 4/7/09
Blood vessels visible 4/20/09
Embryos visible 4/27/09

Incubation technique - Ziploc type storage container, no holes. I open the container once a day for about a minute.

Substrate/humidity - sandy soil from outdoor pen, where eggs were laid. At first there was a lot of condensation forming on the lid, which I wiped away. Now there has been a little condensation on the sides and I've been checking the consistency of the sand with my finger. If it holds a fingertip shape, it's good. I've added water once so far.

Temp - fluctuation between 73F-87F. Until I saw blood vessels I removed the egg chamber from the heat source nightly to allow cooling. Necessary? Beneficial? Probably not, but what the heck. Temp is now close to constant 86.4F. Heat is supplied by an Ultratherm heat pad, attached to the back of my snake rack."

Different but she has hatched out a couple of clutches I know of.

 

[-EJ]

I found a reference of 28-30C and 89-102 days in Incubation of Reptile Eggs. The only reference Kohler mentions is Wicker, pers. Com.

Also... if you can get your hands on a copy of Turtles, Proceedings of the International Turtle and Tortoise Symposium, Vienna, 2002, Chimaira press, P419 is a short account of a captive breeding with a few other references.

It also lists the authors email addresses.

Could you let me know where you find the information about temperature for homeana?
Scott

 

[egyptiandan]

From what you just posted Jacqui, she is using an incubator of sorts It's small but an incubator none the less.
Yup it sounds like she's doing exactly what I said. She takes the eggs off the heat source every night and the temperature gets down to 73F in the morning she puts it back on the heat source, heating them up to 87F. She does this routine until she starts to see development, than when she does she leaves it constantly on the heat source. I would definately give this a try Scott, as it can't hurt seeing as you haven't been able to break the obvious diapause with just constant incubation tmperatures.
This might work also for K.erosa eggs.

Danny

 

[Candy]

Wow I kind of got chills just reading all of these posts and then getting to Jacqui's where the woman saw embro's. I didn't realize this tortoise was so difficult to hatch eggs from. It's almost like reading a book and you get to something exciting in the next chapter, now I realize why Terry was so exciting when posting this thread. Where do Homes and Erosa originate from? I had read a couple of threads and got the opinion that they were hard to raise, but I had no idea.

 

[egyptiandan]

They are both from western central Africa and their ranges pretty much over-lap
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/11003/0
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/11002/0

Danny

 

[Redfoot NERD]

You may recall from a previous thread.. Jacqui's most recent and mine reportedly are from GHANA, Africa -

See all of the water -

Humidity/Temps - http://www.wunderground.com/global/GH.html

Maybe we can monitor the temp changes from day to night? -

http://www.wunderground.com/global/Region/AF/2xTemperature.html

The more you poke around in this site..... !!!!!

NERD

 

[Candy]

So from what I read from Danny's post the Homes are almost endangered species and the Erosa's are Not? Am I reading this right? Well at least Danny's post proves one thing....they are hatching somewhere.