Cutting into Quick - first time owner, advice needed

[TVdinnermasterchef]

His nails are normal and fine. The awkward walking is likely splayed leg syndrome from walking on the slick surfaces you mentioned. They should never be free roaming loose on the floor. That can kill them in many ways.

The slate isn't going to do much, but it will make a good basking area under the bulb.

The first order of business should be to get this guy hydrated with daily soaks for a couple of weeks, and make sure the GI tract is functioning well. Then get the diet and enclosure parameters corrected.

Most of the info found out in the world will be all wrong. Here is the current and correct care info:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

ttps://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/

Thank you Tom, appreciate the info.

Got a container on the way to bathe him too, so will start when that arrives with daily soaks.

He's passing faeces and urates, so hopefully no problems there, just a lot of things to do to get him healthy and happy. Hopefully a couple of months from now he'll be fatter, better able to walk and in much better shape generally.

Any suggestion on how to get him the excersise he needs for now? I can't afford a bigger enclosure yet, it's too cold outside and if the floor is dangerous, there aren't many other options I can see at the moment until I can purchase a bigger terrarium.

 

[Tom]

Thank you Tom, appreciate the info.

Got a container on the way to bathe him too, so will start when that arrives with daily soaks.

He's passing faeces and urates, so hopefully no problems there, just a lot of things to do to get him healthy and happy. Hopefully a couple of months from now he'll be fatter, better able to walk and in much better shape generally.

Any suggestion on how to get him the excersise he needs for now? I can't afford a bigger enclosure yet, it's too cold outside and if the floor is dangerous, there aren't many other options I can see at the moment until I can purchase a bigger terrarium.

Exercise should happen in the tortoise's enclosure, either indoors or out. If the weather outside isn't cooperating, then he will have to wait for the proper indoor set up.

You can soak in any plastic tub, or a sink, or the bathtub. That needs to happen ASAP. Passing urates are a sign that he is already dehydrated. They will also get some exercise during the soak. We call that "the tortoise treadmill".

 

[TVdinnermasterchef]

Exercise should happen in the tortoise's enclosure, either indoors or out. If the weather outside isn't cooperating, then he will have to wait for the proper indoor set up.

You can soak in any plastic tub, or a sink, or the bathtub. That needs to happen ASAP. Passing urates are a sign that he is already dehydrated. They will also get some exercise during the soak. We call that "the tortoise treadmill".

Thank you, I'll give him a soak tonight then in the sink.

I've read through the entirety of the post you recommended. We have some work to do, no doubt.

Me and the wife (the 'We') have already picked a spot that just opened up in the house, and we're going to be building a much larger, plexiglass enclosure, with a lid (currently missing from the provided enclosure), with enough depth to house all the necessary lighting, enough substrate depth, etc. We will also get some items to provide some enrichment to him without taking up too much space.

It will likely take several months, but we'll sort it so he has a much more appropriate enclosure.

I also now understand why he shouldn't be on the carpet, thanks for pointing that out.

He has been drinking a lot of what we've provided, which might go to show he was dehydrated from the time we got him. We will also use a terracotta pot bottom as a water bowl when we can get one instead of the astic bowl he's got now (thankfully not a ramped one, but still...).

Also, hay, fibre pellets and other items for additional nutrition. We have been growing veg in the garden in previous years, but are going to switch to flowers next year after not doing anything this year. We will make sure there are some grown purely for the tortoise, after researching which ones are safe.

Much appreciated for the info, the previous owners and ourselves have clearly not had the correct information on how to keep the little guy. We'll now get him up to shape.

 

[zolasmum]

Thank you, I'll give him a soak tonight then in the sink.

I've read through the entirety of the post you recommended. We have some work to do, no doubt.

Me and the wife (the 'We') have already picked a spot that just opened up in the house, and we're going to be building a much larger, plexiglass enclosure, with a lid (currently missing from the provided enclosure), with enough depth to house all the necessary lighting, enough substrate depth, etc. We will also get some items to provide some enrichment to him without taking up too much space.

It will likely take several months, but we'll sort it so he has a much more appropriate enclosure.

I also now understand why he shouldn't be on the carpet, thanks for pointing that out.

He has been drinking a lot of what we've provided, which might go to show he was dehydrated from the time we got him. We will also use a terracotta pot bottom as a water bowl when we can get one instead of the astic bowl he's got now (thankfully not a ramped one, but still...).

Also, hay, fibre pellets and other items for additional nutrition. We have been growing veg in the garden in previous years, but are going to switch to flowers next year after not doing anything this year. We will make sure there are some grown purely for the tortoise, after researching which ones are safe.

Much appreciated for the info, the previous owners and ourselves have clearly not had the correct information on how to keep the little guy. We'll now get him up to shape.

You are clearly going to make this little chap's life a great deal better - and more interesting too -that's wonderful. I know you've only had him for a few days, but can you tell what his reaction to people is like?
Is he friendly or timid, or does he just ignore you? I shouldn't think he has been given a lot of attention previously.
What is his name, by the way ?
Angie

 

[TVdinnermasterchef]

You are clearly going to make this little chap's life a great deal better - and more interesting too -that's wonderful. I know you've only had him for a few days, but can you tell what his reaction to people is like?
Is he friendly or timid, or does he just ignore you? I shouldn't think he has been given a lot of attention previously.
What is his name, by the way ?
Angie

Tortuga, after the Breaking Bad character who's head ends up on a tortoise, rather than the Spanish word for Tortoise. Terrible, I know...

He seems very friendly actually, and is happy to approach all of us. Skittish with sudden movements, but will let you gently caress his head and she'll with no problem, and actively walks towards you when you approach the enclosure.

He has a tendency to go for a nip if you get too close, but that could be because he's hungry and mistaking my fingers for food. No other signs of aggression, so hopefully a misunderstanding rather than being displeased.

I've been looking at the edible plant lists; so far I've fed him parsley and dock leaves, both of which are in the' Do not feed' category, albeit in small amounts. Much still to learn, but I'll be checking up on anything I find in future.

Thank you BTW, I think if you're going to have an animal, you need to to it properly.

 

[wellington]

Thank you, I'll give him a soak tonight then in the sink.

I've read through the entirety of the post you recommended. We have some work to do, no doubt.

Me and the wife (the 'We') have already picked a spot that just opened up in the house, and we're going to be building a much larger, plexiglass enclosure, with a lid (currently missing from the provided enclosure), with enough depth to house all the necessary lighting, enough substrate depth, etc. We will also get some items to provide some enrichment to him without taking up too much space.

It will likely take several months, but we'll sort it so he has a much more appropriate enclosure.

I also now understand why he shouldn't be on the carpet, thanks for pointing that out.

He has been drinking a lot of what we've provided, which might go to show he was dehydrated from the time we got him. We will also use a terracotta pot bottom as a water bowl when we can get one instead of the astic bowl he's got now (thankfully not a ramped one, but still...).

Also, hay, fibre pellets and other items for additional nutrition. We have been growing veg in the garden in previous years, but are going to switch to flowers next year after not doing anything this year. We will make sure there are some grown purely for the tortoise, after researching which ones are safe.

Much appreciated for the info, the previous owners and ourselves have clearly not had the correct information on how to keep the little guy. We'll now get him up to shape.

He doesn't need a closed chamber at this age, humidity around 30-50% is enough. You can get that either in a humid hide or damp substrate.
A raised garden bed or even a pop up greenhouse both are fairly cheap and comes in sizes of about 3 feet wide by 6,8, and longer sizes. The greenhouse will work as a closed chamber but that's okay, just not needed like it is for a hatchling. The slate to eat off of will help, and if he uses his feet to help rip the food it can help his nails too. That's where I disagree with Tom. I use a flat rough rock and I haven't had to trim my Russians beak or nails since I rescued him. If it doesn't work with yours, no harm, no fowl.

 

[TVdinnermasterchef]

He doesn't need a closed chamber at this age, humidity around 30-50% is enough. You can get that either in a humid hide or damp substrate.
A raised garden bed or even a pop up greenhouse both are fairly cheap and comes in sizes of about 3 feet wide by 6,8, and longer sizes. The greenhouse will work as a closed chamber but that's okay, just not needed like it is for a hatchling. The slate to eat off of will help, and if he uses his feet to help rip the food it can help his nails too. That's where I disagree with Tom. I use a flat rough rock and I haven't had to trim my Russians beak or nails since I rescued him. If it doesn't work with yours, no harm, no fowl.

I've seen him ripping his food every time he eats, so hopefully the steps we've discussed should be enough. And yes, if the slate doesn't work, I'll keep clipping the tips as he needs it.

The lid was mainly to ensure he's warm enough, with as little heat loss as possible. Our house loses a lot of heat in winter, and it regularly gets to around 10 - 12 Celsius before I stick the heating on in the morning. I've seen it shouldn't dip below 19, so it was mainly as a means of ensuring relative comfort in the winter months.

I was thinking about a hinged lid, so this is something we could leave open in the summer months when not required.

The humidity of his enclosure is far too low given the dryness of his current substrate, but that should improve when we increase the depth. I will also buy a spray bottle to mist the substrate with every once in a while.

What frequency would you suggest to mist to ensure a decent humidity level?

 

[wellington]

I've seen him ripping his food every time he eats, so hopefully the steps we've discussed should be enough. And yes, if the slate doesn't work, I'll keep clipping the tips as he needs it.

The lid was mainly to ensure he's warm enough, with as little heat loss as possible. Our house loses a lot of heat in winter, and it regularly gets to around 10 - 12 Celsius before I stick the heating on in the morning. I've seen it shouldn't dip below 19, so it was mainly as a means of ensuring relative comfort in the winter months.

I was thinking about a hinged lid, so this is something we could leave open in the summer months when not required.

The humidity of his enclosure is far too low given the dryness of his current substrate, but that should improve when we increase the depth. I will also buy a spray bottle to mist the substrate with every once in a while.

What frequency would you suggest to mist to ensure a decent humidity level?

Spraying seems to be needed a couple times a day at least. You will have to judge that with a gauge.
If you poured some warm water in, then stir up the substrate, that should last longer, like a day or more before needed again. Of course you would have to judge that by the gauge

 

[TVdinnermasterchef]

Spraying seems to be needed a couple times a day at least. You will have to judge that with a gauge.
If you poured some warm water in, then stir up the substrate, that should last longer, like a day or more before needed again. Of course you would have to judge that by the gauge

Humidity gauge I assume? I'll add it to the list. Thank you

 

[wellington]

Humidity gauge I assume? I'll add it to the list. Thank you

You should be able to find a temp and humidity gauge in one. Look for digital. Hardware stores sell them fairly cheap. An infrared temp gun is also a good purchase and inexpensive.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome! you’ve been given some great advice already!

Feel free to check out this thread I made recently on their housing with some diet ideas, hopefully some of it will be helpful

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[TVdinnermasterchef]

Hello and welcome! you’ve been given some great advice already!

Feel free to check out this thread I made recently on their housing with some diet ideas, hopefully some of it will be helpful

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you, I'll take all the info you can give.

As an update, he's had a couple of soaks now and I've been pouring small amounts of water into his substrate every now and then. Got a digital temp/humidity monitor and the basking area is at 37.8 C (ideal on C is 35-38) and the humidity hovers between 30-40%. Slate has also been put in so should hopefully be working on his nails and beak and his new bowl arrived today for use as a bath which can be angled to create both deep end shallow ends. Finally, the Ca powder arrived and he's now had two doses to help with his short fall.

Cleaning his enclosure out tomorrow and putting new substrate, deeper than current as he's hardly got any at the moment. Will reset everything at this point so we know exactly what is happening.

Yeah, we know to avoid soil and sand from having read up on this. We were thinking orchid bark (I believe it's called) once we have a big enough enclosure built for him. It'll likely be about 4ft by 6ft, as the house isn't big enough for 4 x 8, but it's significantly bigger than the 4ft x 18" he's in at the moment, which was what we were given and which was sold with him from the pet store and which we had no idea was far too small until we'd already took ownership of him. I also suggested we could have a 4 x 4 ft with two floors, a ground floor with deeper substrate for hiding / digging and a small ramp leading to a second floor of shallower substrate to save excess weight. Not sure my wife is pleased with my ever more elaborate plans and skyrocketing costs!

I've got an app I use that can identify plants, and I cross check this with the TTT database I was sent a link for. So far I've found local sources or Butterfly bush, moneywort and dandelions for occasional grazing, plus thistles and geraniums for a more usual accompanyment to his lettuce and greens. I've quite enjoyed this foraging aspect and will be checking all interesting looking plants I find for pote tiak sources of food. I've also found some Ragwort and Toadflax which I now know to avoid. God knows what the neighbours think seeing me photographing the plants around their fences and stealing bits of random bushes and weeds dotting about.

We're also going to be planting our garden next year based on wild and common shop bought flowers from the safe and moderate consumption categories only, just in case he decides to nibble everything when in the garden on hot days.

Once again, thank you for the info, you and the wider community have been a great help.

Kind regards,

Shaun

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

No problem at all! Bless you for trying to give this tortoise a better life! Thank you for the update
If you’re able to provide a 6x4 space, perhaps you could add a second floor to that?

 

[TVdinnermasterchef]

No problem at all! Bless you for trying to give this tortoise a better life! Thank you for the update
If you’re able to provide a 6x4 space, perhaps you could add a second floor to that?

At that point I think I'd be sleeping on the couch for the foreseeable future. I think I'll try the 4 x 4 x 2 floor enclosure so it doesn't dwarf the room but gives him the room he needs.

 

[Sarah2020]

Thank you, I'll give him a soak tonight then in the sink.

I've read through the entirety of the post you recommended. We have some work to do, no doubt.

Me and the wife (the 'We') have already picked a spot that just opened up in the house, and we're going to be building a much larger, plexiglass enclosure, with a lid (currently missing from the provided enclosure), with enough depth to house all the necessary lighting, enough substrate depth, etc. We will also get some items to provide some enrichment to him without taking up too much space.

It will likely take several months, but we'll sort it so he has a much more appropriate enclosure.

I also now understand why he shouldn't be on the carpet, thanks for pointing that out.

He has been drinking a lot of what we've provided, which might go to show he was dehydrated from the time we got him. We will also use a terracotta pot bottom as a water bowl when we can get one instead of the astic bowl he's got now (thankfully not a ramped one, but still...).

Also, hay, fibre pellets and other items for additional nutrition. We have been growing veg in the garden in previous years, but are going to switch to flowers next year after not doing anything this year. We will make sure there are some grown purely for the tortoise, after researching which ones are safe.

Much appreciated for the info, the previous owners and ourselves have clearly not had the correct information on how to keep the little guy. We'll now get him up to shape.

Hi just a warning on glass, they hate looking out and will persistently scratch to get out. As your staring from scratch I recommend a wooden enclosure with sliding glass door which you can tape up to avoid the outside view and line with sticky back plastic, to avoid the substrate rotting the wood. A good source of supplies is swell reptile UK, they have this enclosure.

VivExotic Repti Home Maxi Large Oak Vivarium

Maxi large oak vivarium for medium reptiles Easy to assemble flat-pack kit Sliding screen doors and ventilation throughout

www.reptiles.swelluk.com

I bought similar and took the back off and extended out and propped up on sturdy supports. Just ideas....
This way you can have good space, UV lamp on ceiling, heat lamp and space for low rocks and hides etc...

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Hi just a warning on glass, they hate looking out and will persistently scratch to get out.

Some, including @Tom think that this is a myth and has more to do with the enclousure size and the tortoise itself. Not all tortoises try to get through the glass. But here is a thread on why glass is bad: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/glass-and-your-tortoise.174334/

 

[TVdinnermasterchef]

Hi just a warning on glass, they hate looking out and will persistently scratch to get out. As your staring from scratch I recommend a wooden enclosure with sliding glass door which you can tape up to avoid the outside view and line with sticky back plastic, to avoid the substrate rotting the wood. A good source of supplies is swell reptile UK, they have this enclosure.

VivExotic Repti Home Maxi Large Oak Vivarium

Maxi large oak vivarium for medium reptiles Easy to assemble flat-pack kit Sliding screen doors and ventilation throughout

www.reptiles.swelluk.com

I bought similar and took the back off and extended out and propped up on sturdy supports. Just ideas....
This way you can have good space, UV lamp on ceiling, heat lamp and space for low rocks and hides etc...

Thank you for the information

Hi just a warning on glass, they hate looking out and will persistently scratch to get out. As your staring from scratch I recommend a wooden enclosure with sliding glass door which you can tape up to avoid the outside view and line with sticky back plastic, to avoid the substrate rotting the wood. A good source of supplies is swell reptile UK, they have this enclosure.

VivExotic Repti Home Maxi Large Oak Vivarium

Maxi large oak vivarium for medium reptiles Easy to assemble flat-pack kit Sliding screen doors and ventilation throughout

www.reptiles.swelluk.com

I bought similar and took the back off and extended out and propped up on sturdy supports. Just ideas....
This way you can have good space, UV lamp on ceiling, heat lamp and space for low rocks and hides etc...

Thank you Sarah,

I was thinking of using plexiglass as its much safer, lighter and probably cheaper. Any sheet thicker than 3mm is completely opaque to Infrared, hence no 'oven effect' at standard 5mm thicknesses. It also let's through quite a large amount of UV (standard MC grade plexiglass), albeit there would be a UV light included in the enclosure also.

With adequate ventilation, the temp should be warmer than the rest of the room, but will allow excess heat to be removed via convection. (Apologies for the geekery, I'm a materials Engineer)

If making a multi-floor enclosure, it may be better though to have a wooden base and 2 wooden sides, with the other two sides plexiglass to allow us to access the enclosure and see if anything is wrong.

A hybrid likely give the best of both worlds, and the wood would be easier to construct without the need for potentially toxic adhesives.
Does this sound like a better compromise given what you know?

Kind regards,

Shaun

 

[Sarah2020]

Plexiglass would work for the door access. With a roomy wood enc. Tortoise tend to stay on one level so multi tear may not be safe to use etc., as you have an older tortoise you could have an open enclosure using a flat bookcase with good depth and then hanging UV and heat over the top. There are tons of ways but most importantly it has to be habitable with good space and interest for the tortoise. I have an enclosed which works but speedy has an huge flat breeze block oblong outside enclosure with corrugated plastic partially over the top for inclement weather .
They are escape artists so always have that in the forefront of your mind.

 

[Sarah2020]

Pictures of the nails as best I could, we've only had him 3 days so he's a little skittish when handled at the moment.

Re the nails the dark part is blood so if you hold up to light you will see there is hardly any to trim. I would add shallow rocks into enc and leave alone. Beak is also good to check as that impacts eating. Is there is an obvious over hang you can contact a local reptile shop to ask if they have said move who can trim.

 

[TVdinnermasterchef]

Plexiglass would work for the door access. With a roomy wood enc. Tortoise tend to stay on one level so multi tear may not be safe to use etc., as you have an older tortoise you could have an open enclosure using a flat bookcase with good depth and then hanging UV and heat over the top. There are tons of ways but most importantly it has to be habitable with good space and interest for the tortoise. I have an enclosed which works but speedy has an huge flat breeze block oblong outside enclosure with corrugated plastic partially over the top for inclement weather .
They are escape artists so always have that in the forefront of your mind.

There's no room for large enough bookcase, it'll have to be a largish flat enclosure on the floor, but I can make it significantly larger than it currently has; the equivalent of 4 of its current enclosures side by side, with more depth for digging areas.

I'm also thinking of having some hardy plants in there for some cover (succulents, etc.), and a large, hollow half log for a shaded retreat, plus gently sloping rocks to climb (well away from the walls, etc. to give it some diversity.

A plexiglass roof with some slits for air circulation should permit plenty of light too.