Day lengths in my tortoise enclosures

[jsheffield]

I have four tortoise enclosures in my house. One for each of the tortoises living with me. Each of the tortoise are from a different region of the Earth:

• Redfoot, from South America, near the Equator, so I do a 12/12 light/dark cycle... people often say that they don't like much light, but mine often starts his day with some basking when the light comes on at 6, and I usually see him revisit the underlamp side to work on his tan at some point in his day.
• Russian, from one of the -stans, a bit further north, so I do a more northern light/dark cycle that shifts as the cool weather comes (to help ready him for brumation... he likes to bake himself, but also manages to deal with cooler temps that would likely sicken my redfoot.
  
• Black Mountain Tortoise, from mountain forests in Asia, nearer the Equator than the Russian, but not so near as the Redfoot, so I went back to a 12/12 light/dark cycle, but I use a less intense light source... even so, I sometimes see Aretha wander out under the lamp to get some rays for a bit before wandering back into the undergrowth of her enclosure.
• Hingeback (Homeana), from Central Africa, near the Equator, so I do a 12/12 light/dark cycle, but because people talk about the dense forests they move through, I use a dimmer bulb and have it go on and off periodically throughout the day to simulate dappling... unlike the redfoot or the MEP, I have yet to see Nelson seek out the light and heat of the space under the bulb, so hope he's getting the D he needs from animal protein.

I'm interested in how and why other people on TFO decide to control the light in their tortoise enclosures, and would love to hear from anyone willing to share.

Thanks,

Jamie

 

[wellington]

During winter I have the lights on for 11 hours. They come on around 7ish and off at 6ish. In the summer I don't use any lights except shed over head light as they go in and out as they want.
I have leopards and a Russian

 

[TammyJ]

Great topic! Very interesting. Mine are redfoots, outdoors, natural Caribbean day and night.

 

[jsheffield]

Great topic! Very interesting. Mine are redfoots, outdoors, natural Caribbean day and night.

I'm so jealous!

Mine love it when I am able to get them outside in the summer, but it's not as often as I'd like (or as often as they'd like).

Jamie

 

[Yvonne G]

I occasionally have an indoor enclosure for one reason or another, but mostly my tortoises live outside in Central California's sunshine. For the rain forest tortoises, the yard is well planted with filtered sun, but more open space for the African species.

The indoor enclosures have lights on at 7a and off at 7p. It would be nice to do UVB only during the middle of the day, but it takes up too much space over the enclosure to have that many light fixtures and timers.

 

[Markw84]

Just food for thought - Since we are delving into the area of more technical tortoise husbandry and an area I feel deserves more study:

I think when breeding it is even more important to cycle photoperiods. Keeping in mind your chart shows the time the sun is up as opposed to daylight hours, I also change photoperiods. Daylight hours is different than "daytime" due to dawn and dush hours, which I find many chelonians use and are very active.

For young, I actually like to use a summertime photoperiod for their first 2 years. I believe it keeps them more active and feeding better instead of going off food at times. Even for close-to equator species like sulcata, I like a 14 hour photoperiod with a 1/2 hour on each end of reduced basking incandescent only light.

For my Burmese Stars, which come from basically the same lattitude as your Manouria, at 21.5°N there is actually a 2 1/2 hour difference in winter daylight vs summer. But the sun is changing angle from directly overhead to 45° lower in the winter. That changes the UVB intensity quite a bit. I believe tortoises are quite conditioned to seeing UV levels and that trigger is perhaps more important that simply light hours. A russian tortoise from the "stans" and 47.5°N latitude has the sun go from 24° below straight overhead in summer, to an angle of 71° below overhead in winter - just 19° above the horizon. They get no usable UVB in winter if they were above ground.

Also for breeders, I have gone to using a more complicated photoperiod which includes a UVB "photoperiod" shift. I like the T5 HO 12% tubes to allow them to hang higher and give a broader coverage area. This then also allows me to use the midday spike in UVB and limit the UVB light to on only 6 hours in summer, and stepped down to 3 hours in winter. I use lots of plant cover to allow for "shade basking". I find my Burmese Stars are not hardly baskers at all, but the UV levels they see probably still triggers annual cycles of breeding. They are also more active in the evening and even after dark. So I like to create a dawn/dusk with the ambient LEDs going off 1/2 hour before and after the basking incandescent does. The breeding age ones are outside except for the colder months here. They experience our summer and seasonal shift naturally, but here a bit more so at our latitude 10° further north. When I move them indoors, I like to then mimic the winter photoperiods.

Even a sulcata in the heart of their range will see a shift of 1 1/2 hours of daylight summer to winter. And - the sun going from overhead to 34° below vertical in winter. Adults being outdoors year-round experience a more dramatic shift here with our seasons and still seem to adhere to early spring/spring egg laying. Young sulcata I keep indoors with a 14 hour (including a dawn/dusk) photoperiod as "summer" year-round.

 

[jsheffield]

Just food for thought - Since we are delving into the area of more technical tortoise husbandry and an area I feel deserves more study:

I think when breeding it is even more important to cycle photoperiods. Keeping in mind your chart shows the time the sun is up as opposed to daylight hours, I also change photoperiods. Daylight hours is different than "daytime" due to dawn and dush hours, which I find many chelonians use and are very active.

For young, I actually like to use a summertime photoperiod for their first 2 years. I believe it keeps them more active and feeding better instead of going off food at times. Even for close-to equator species like sulcata, I like a 14 hour photoperiod with a 1/2 hour on each end of reduced basking incandescent only light.

For my Burmese Stars, which come from basically the same lattitude as your Manouria, at 21.5°N there is actually a 2 1/2 hour difference in winter daylight vs summer. But the sun is changing angle from directly overhead to 45° lower in the winter. That changes the UVB intensity quite a bit. I believe tortoises are quite conditioned to seeing UV levels and that trigger is perhaps more important that simply light hours. A russian tortoise from the "stans" and 47.5°N latitude has the sun go from 24° below straight overhead in summer, to an angle of 71° below overhead in winter - just 19° above the horizon. They get no usable UVB in winter if they were above ground.

Also for breeders, I have gone to using a more complicated photoperiod which includes a UVB "photoperiod" shift. I like the T5 HO 12% tubes to allow them to hang higher and give a broader coverage area. This then also allows me to use the midday spike in UVB and limit the UVB light to on only 6 hours in summer, and stepped down to 3 hours in winter. I use lots of plant cover to allow for "shade basking". I find my Burmese Stars are not hardly baskers at all, but the UV levels they see probably still triggers annual cycles of breeding. They are also more active in the evening and even after dark. So I like to create a dawn/dusk with the ambient LEDs going off 1/2 hour before and after the basking incandescent does. The breeding age ones are outside except for the colder months here. They experience our summer and seasonal shift naturally, but here a bit more so at our latitude 10° further north. When I move them indoors, I like to then mimic the winter photoperiods.

Even a sulcata in the heart of their range will see a shift of 1 1/2 hours of daylight summer to winter. And - the sun going from overhead to 34° below vertical in winter. Adults being outdoors year-round experience a more dramatic shift here with our seasons and still seem to adhere to early spring/spring egg laying. Young sulcata I keep indoors with a 14 hour (including a dawn/dusk) photoperiod as "summer" year-round.

Thanks for that fantastic, and detailed, reply... one of the great things about the timers and thermostats I use with my torts' enclosures is that altering their environments is more easily, and accurately, controllable.

Jamie

 

[Markw84]

Thanks for that fantastic, and detailed, reply... one of the great things about the timers and thermostats I use with my torts' enclosures is that altering their environments is more easily, and accurately, controllable.

Jamie

Agree! The smart timers make it so easy to adjust a time right from my iphone, anywhere!

 

[KevinGG]

Just food for thought - Since we are delving into the area of more technical tortoise husbandry and an area I feel deserves more study:

I think when breeding it is even more important to cycle photoperiods. Keeping in mind your chart shows the time the sun is up as opposed to daylight hours, I also change photoperiods. Daylight hours is different than "daytime" due to dawn and dush hours, which I find many chelonians use and are very active.

For young, I actually like to use a summertime photoperiod for their first 2 years. I believe it keeps them more active and feeding better instead of going off food at times. Even for close-to equator species like sulcata, I like a 14 hour photoperiod with a 1/2 hour on each end of reduced basking incandescent only light.

For my Burmese Stars, which come from basically the same lattitude as your Manouria, at 21.5°N there is actually a 2 1/2 hour difference in winter daylight vs summer. But the sun is changing angle from directly overhead to 45° lower in the winter. That changes the UVB intensity quite a bit. I believe tortoises are quite conditioned to seeing UV levels and that trigger is perhaps more important that simply light hours. A russian tortoise from the "stans" and 47.5°N latitude has the sun go from 24° below straight overhead in summer, to an angle of 71° below overhead in winter - just 19° above the horizon. They get no usable UVB in winter if they were above ground.

Also for breeders, I have gone to using a more complicated photoperiod which includes a UVB "photoperiod" shift. I like the T5 HO 12% tubes to allow them to hang higher and give a broader coverage area. This then also allows me to use the midday spike in UVB and limit the UVB light to on only 6 hours in summer, and stepped down to 3 hours in winter. I use lots of plant cover to allow for "shade basking". I find my Burmese Stars are not hardly baskers at all, but the UV levels they see probably still triggers annual cycles of breeding. They are also more active in the evening and even after dark. So I like to create a dawn/dusk with the ambient LEDs going off 1/2 hour before and after the basking incandescent does. The breeding age ones are outside except for the colder months here. They experience our summer and seasonal shift naturally, but here a bit more so at our latitude 10° further north. When I move them indoors, I like to then mimic the winter photoperiods.

Even a sulcata in the heart of their range will see a shift of 1 1/2 hours of daylight summer to winter. And - the sun going from overhead to 34° below vertical in winter. Adults being outdoors year-round experience a more dramatic shift here with our seasons and still seem to adhere to early spring/spring egg laying. Young sulcata I keep indoors with a 14 hour (including a dawn/dusk) photoperiod as "summer" year-round.

How long have you been using these photoperiods, Mark? Have you experienced a difference in breeding/egg laying since using these?

 

[method89]

Agree! The smart timers make it so easy to adjust a time right from my iphone, anywhere!

Is there a specific timer you recommend?

 

[jsheffield]

My smart timers aren't all that smart, they're still mechanical, with knobs to adjust the lighting on/off state in 15 minute increments.

J

 

[Markw84]

How long have you been using these photoperiods, Mark? Have you experienced a difference in breeding/egg laying since using these?

Kevin, I have always used the changing photoperiods with my Burmese Stars, and they are the first species of tortoise I have that I needed to house indoors in winter. So I do not have a comparison. All other turtles and tortoises I have bred are housed outdoors year-round as breeding adults.

 

[Markw84]

Is there a specific timer you recommend?

I use two different brands currently. The both use the same app - "Smart Life". So all are visible on the same home screen.

This one is nice in that it also tracks all energy usage through that timer. So not only can you set timers and turn on/off from you phone, but you also have a screen that shows how many kilowatt hours is used daily, weekly, yearly, etc. It also is alexa compatible. So it is nice to simply say to Alexa "Turn on the living room light" and have it turn on without getting up or picking up your phone. As I'm walking out to the back yard, I can say "Alexa, turn on the dipping pool" and the waterfall for the dipping pool is turned on.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2LR5KN/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

This one is a bit more convenient when setting up an enclosure with more timers needed as it is a powerstrip with 4 outlets and each one is controlled independently. Because I have over 35 smart plugs running in my home currently, this does simplify things a bit. It does not have the power monitoring feature, but does work well. I also use this one as the main power source in the Smart Enclosures I build and sell as it makes a nice, streamlined way to handle the timers and plugs needed. This is also Alexa compatible.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MGF7L2R/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

 

[method89]

I use two different brands currently. The both use the same app - "Smart Life". So all are visible on the same home screen.

This one is nice in that it also tracks all energy usage through that timer. So not only can you set timers and turn on/off from you phone, but you also have a screen that shows how many kilowatt hours is used daily, weekly, yearly, etc. It also is alexa compatible. So it is nice to simply say to Alexa "Turn on the living room light" and have it turn on without getting up or picking up your phone. As I'm walking out to the back yard, I can say "Alexa, turn on the dipping pool" and the waterfall for the dipping pool is turned on.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J2LR5KN/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

This one is a bit more convenient when setting up an enclosure with more timers needed as it is a powerstrip with 4 outlets and each one is controlled independently. Because I have over 35 smart plugs running in my home currently, this does simplify things a bit. It does not have the power monitoring feature, but does work well. I also use this one as the main power source in the Smart Enclosures I build and sell as it makes a nice, streamlined way to handle the timers and plugs needed. This is also Alexa compatible.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MGF7L2R/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Thanks for getting to me, Mark