Desert Box Turtles

Tom

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That is a tough one.

You can rule out Ornata and
Luteola. There's just no way it could be with that shell color, high dome and overall shape. I'd put money on that bet.

It has to be a Carolina.

I don't know much about the box turtle pet trade back then, but I don't think Gulf Coasts were ever regularly available, although some must have slipped in. If it were, I would expect it be larger, so I think you can rule that out.

I see a lot more 3-toed characteristics than any other type in all of the photos except the second one. That profile looks all eastern. I've seen plenty of easterns with that shell color and lack of pattern, so that is a very strong possibility.

I'll stare at it some more, but right now I'm 50/50 on 3-toed and eastern.

Fun game!

I wish just one pic had been in focus...
 

Neal

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@Tom , Does exhibit A or B job your memory?

A:
1.JPG

B:

2.jpg
 

Tom

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Tom

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I did a search for Eastern, Western and Three Toed Box turtles, and these images most closely resemble him in my 30+ year old memories:
3 Toe.jpg

images.jpeg

60ac73c28302d320a19e7260ff202b0d--box-turtles-boxes.jpg

ebturtle.jpg

120429tu.jpg

These images were under all three types of box turtles. I don't think he had enough color on the carapace or skin to be an eastern, but maybe some locales have animals with more subdued colors? His carapace color was most like the first pic. His skin color was most like the last pic here.
 

Grandpa Turtle 144

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Yeah, I'm really not sure how plausible it is that they would be sterile. It seems a reasonable cause though, but who knows. My history with box turtles is that it has taken about an average of two years for them to be established in their new home before any breeding begins. I don't know how that would apply to this group being that they are local captive bred specimens, but we'll see what the future holds. They are fun to have around either way.
See you had the answer! " It takes about 2 years for them to settled in ! "
 

Neal

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I did a search for Eastern, Western and Three Toed Box turtles, and these images most closely resemble him in my 30+ year old memories:
View attachment 217699

View attachment 217700

View attachment 217701

View attachment 217702

View attachment 217703

These images were under all three types of box turtles. I don't think he had enough color on the carapace or skin to be an eastern, but maybe some locales have animals with more subdued colors? His carapace color was most like the first pic. His skin color was most like the last pic here.

There are definitely some localities of easterns that don't have a lot of skin or shell color. From your Tommy Turtle thread, that second picture has to be an eastern. The black shell color with some orange bleeding through is what makes me think that. It's arguably the best picture for IDing because of the outside lighting. I think the interior lighting and colors are clashing a bit making it hard to really get a sense of the turtles shell color.

The interior shots make the shell look more like a kalamata olive color, and that's typical of a 3-toed. Even then, in the last pick I can just barely make out the shape of his hind foot, and that doesn't look like a 3-toed. That's a bit hard for me to describe...I've been studying pictures of all varieties of box turtles from a very young age and my brain just recognizes that foot as not belonging to a 3-toed, even with the blur.

One more question. In the Tommy Turtle thread, I can just barely make out some white markings on the turtles face. Do you recall if he had white on the front part of his face and lower mouth? Like this one here:

1.jpg
 

Tom

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One more question. In the Tommy Turtle thread, I can just barely make out some white markings on the turtles face. Do you recall if he had white on the front part of his face and lower mouth? Like this one here:

View attachment 217705

He did not have face color like the one here. There was some minor color differential on the face, but it was dark brown to blackish. His face looked a lot like the turtle in the last pic I posted above.

Thanks for lending your experienced eye to helping me solve this decades old mystery Neal.
 

Neal

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Alright @Tom here's my last attempt. I had to dig through a few old books on my shelf, but I think I found some winners.

Do any of these pictures remind you of Tommy Turtle?

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg
 

Tom

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Alright @Tom here's my last attempt. I had to dig through a few old books on my shelf, but I think I found some winners.

Do any of these pictures remind you of Tommy Turtle?

View attachment 217890

View attachment 217891

View attachment 217892

Number three looks pretty close, but Tommy had a little over all darker shell and the head/face shape was a little different.

Number one has a similar shell to what Tommy had, but the head is a little different.

The carapace pattern and color on the face and legs made me eliminate number two.
 

Neal

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Number three looks pretty close, but Tommy had a little over all darker shell and the head/face shape was a little different.

Number one has a similar shell to what Tommy had, but the head is a little different.

The carapace pattern and color on the face and legs made me eliminate number two.

Well, I admit defeat. I think it is more likely than not an eastern, but I cannot be sure.

If you ever happen across some other pictures, please share!
 

Neal

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I have a good lol for everyone today. My box turtle eggs just hatched:

2.jpg

1.JPG

These appear to be Western Fence lizards. I thought that the eggs were a little on the small side...

I was a bit excited, but now feel slightly foolish. Oh well, life would be no fun if you can't laugh at yourself from time to time.

Sorry @Tom, I'll have some deserts for you at some point.
 

KevinGG

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I have a good lol for everyone today. My box turtle eggs just hatched:

View attachment 218526

View attachment 218525

These appear to be Western Fence lizards. I thought that the eggs were a little on the small side...

I was a bit excited, but now feel slightly foolish. Oh well, life would be no fun if you can't laugh at yourself from time to time.

Sorry @Tom, I'll have some deserts for you at some point.

Haha. That's too funny
 

wellington

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I have a good lol for everyone today. My box turtle eggs just hatched:

View attachment 218526

View attachment 218525

These appear to be Western Fence lizards. I thought that the eggs were a little on the small side...

I was a bit excited, but now feel slightly foolish. Oh well, life would be no fun if you can't laugh at yourself from time to time.

Sorry @Tom, I'll have some deserts for you at some point.
I had to look this up after you mentioned it in your Star thread. Too funny. I'm sure they appreciated the help and attention.
 

Zihuatanejo

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Such baleful soulful eyes! Very adorable & personable turtles. I wish more people had desert box turtles. The male pistachio head is so special
 

Neal

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Such baleful soulful eyes! Very adorable & personable turtles. I wish more people had desert box turtles. The male pistachio head is so special

I wish the same thing.

I assume you are the same person from another forum who was questioning pyramiding in your box turtle? You'll find a quite a few knowledgeable people here that can explain the scientific aspect of pyramiding much better than I could.
 
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