Did this 2 1/2 year old leopard get trampled on or..?

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marithaven

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We have just gotten an injured or sick baby leopard. The shell/ carapace is cracked on the joining line of top and bottom shell running from front to back. Top middle block is cracked on both sides fron and back side. bottom stomach shell have a small crack from middle inner side to outer side in a y form. This baby cannot extend the back right leg, when walking he does not use this leg. I examined it gently and when moving this tiny leg it made a click sound. The baby has not eaten since we got him on Sunday. It is raining here for two days already and quite cold- beginning of winter. It seems this little guy doesn't have an appetite at all- I offered him salad leaves small pieces yellow pepper and small pieces of cucumber but that is left untouched. I cannot see that he is drinking any water although they say that tortoises save water in themselves for dry times-applicable to this size??? His eyes are a bit squinted but still clear and i can see no nose drip. How ever he looks a bit weak. I would so much like to help him. I say help him cause he has a clear long tail and the dent underneath is just starting to show. I Read that you can give them the Avi Pro Biotics used for birds also, but i do not know the dosage to be given then. Also his lungs sounds clear of any liquids his breathing is regular or so i think. Could one look at the amount of breaths taken in and say - ok he should be breathing so many times per minute-or is there another way to measure his temperature and heart rate? I would appreciate it if there is someone that has had anything to do with these symptoms and type of injuries
 

yagyujubei

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Hello, If you could post a few pictures, it would help. It'd difficult for me to visualize what is wrong. Could he have been hit by a car?
 

marithaven

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I will take photos this afternoon and post them 2 morrow morning
I dont think he was hit by a car. He is so small he would be a splat on the tar. I think maybe a buck or bees or something. If you see the photo's you would agree it was not a car. Maybe a person stepped on it feeling ashamed to say so. Maybe the person who brought him to me... thats only speculation. Yes it is difficult to say if you havent seen photos. I will definitely put it on so you can see and give advise if you can.. Thanx yagyujubei
 

Yvonne G

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Hi Marithaven:

Welcome to the forum!!

I was reading your bio and I must say that I envy you. Being able to have leopard tortoises in the country they naturally come from must be a wonderful thing! I'd really love to see pictures of your tortoises.

It doesn't sound good for the baby that was stepped on. Do you know a good vet who has experience with tortoises? The baby will need antibiotics. Is the cracking very bad? Can you see inside the tortoise?

Best advice I can offer is keep him warm and quiet and give him antibiotics.
 

marithaven

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emysemys said:
Hi Marithaven:

Welcome to the forum!!

I was reading your bio and I must say that I envy you. Being able to have leopard tortoises in the country they naturally come from must be a wonderful thing! I'd really love to see pictures of your tortoises.

It doesn't sound good for the baby that was stepped on. Do you know a good vet who has experience with tortoises? The baby will need antibiotics. Is the cracking very bad? Can you see inside the tortoise?

Best advice I can offer is keep him warm and quiet and give him antibiotics.

Good morning
It is 8.05 in the morning here by us, and a chilly morning too.
Yes i just love these torts.
No you cannot see the insides but the one crackline is right through running from hind leg to fore leg. We do have him on doxibiotic and avi pro biotic. To our amazement we discovered last night that this little guy is a Natal hinged/or the Spekes hinged tortoise and may be fully grown as the Natal hinged reaches only a mere 13cm- males. This one is 14.5cm and the Spekes hinged will rach a length of 30cm. Not sure yet which one it is. Will post photos just now. Could you tell me how to load these photos from my computer onto the forum please
 

marithaven

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Tom said:
I explained how to post photos just now over in your introductory thread here:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-New-and-hungry-for-information#axzz1K2YwVlxZ

Sorry to hear about your little one.

Thank you Tom i did get it on the introduction
Actually this little one was brought to me on Sunday and i dont know for how long it is in this condition. I am going to try and heal him and set him free back in his environment. I am worried though because i read at this stage they are preparing for hibernation. Iam scared once he goes into hibernation he will not wake again- then on the other hand he might heal in those couple of months sleeping stage. I have to try he is just so small....
 

marithaven

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Here are the pics for the little tortoise brought to me on Sunday.
Found out it is a Natal Hinged or Spekes Hinged tortoise and maybe fully groen as its maximum length is 13cm and this one is 14.5cm. Anybody with suggestions how to help this little guy's shell?
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Jacqui

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His shell doesn't look to be in that bad of shape. There is no bleeding or smell correct? Are flies trying to bother it? They would be my biggest concern at this time. Hard to tell from the pictures are they even fresh looking? If they are, I would try to keep the area clean, but pretty much leave it alone. This guys can be tough and heal from amazing injuries all on their own even out in the wild.

...and it is a male. :cool:


Since this is about a hingeback, I am going to move it to that area.
 

yagyujubei

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It's doesn't look as bad as I thought. I would soak him in warm water, and gently clean with a soft bristled toothbrush, and apply an antibiotic ointment to any open areas. He'll need to be kept clean, and don't allow dirt into the wounds. I would probably do this on a daily basis for awhile.The split scute on the carapace looks fine to me.
 

marithaven

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Jacqui said:
His shell doesn't look to be in that bad of shape. There is no bleeding or smell correct? Are flies trying to bother it? They would be my biggest concern at this time. Hard to tell from the pictures are they even fresh looking? If they are, I would try to keep the area clean, but pretty much leave it alone. This guys can be tough and heal from amazing injuries all on their own even out in the wild.

...and it is a male. :cool:


Since this is about a hingeback, I am going to move it to that area.

Thank You
Yes it is fresh. After i cleaned out all the mud the one especially looked sore- the one running from the fore leg to the back leg. He is not eating at all and for the first time last night took a couple of sips of water. I read a lot about them and was informed they are going into hibernation now until early september. Will he be allright with his injuries?


Jacqui said:
His shell doesn't look to be in that bad of shape. There is no bleeding or smell correct? Are flies trying to bother it? They would be my biggest concern at this time. Hard to tell from the pictures are they even fresh looking? If they are, I would try to keep the area clean, but pretty much leave it alone. This guys can be tough and heal from amazing injuries all on their own even out in the wild.

...and it is a male. :cool:


Since this is about a hingeback, I am going to move it to that area.

Jacqui,
Please tell me about their bibernation, Leopards do not hibernate this will be new for mr, but i cannot put him back in a field where he will probably die of his injuries. It bothers me that he hasn't eaten since Sunday


yagyujubei said:
It's doesn't look as bad as I thought. I would soak him in warm water, and gently clean with a soft bristled toothbrush, and apply an antibiotic ointment to any open areas. He'll need to be kept clean, and don't allow dirt into the wounds. I would probably do this on a daily basis for awhile.The split scute on the carapace looks fine to me.

I Am keeping him inside at this stage. He is not even walking not eating not drinking. Only last night he took a couple of sips for the first time. We have him on Doxybiotic and Pro Biotic -Forse giving. Could i close the cracks up with fibreglass and resin?
It does'n look so bad but when you pick him up turn him the whole shell moves
 

yagyujubei

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I wouldn't try to seal the cracks at this stage, you could trap bacteria in the wound.It's good that he's had water. Keep offering different types of food, but he can go a long time without eating, so don't worry if he doesn't eat right now. Let him have as much water as he wants.
 

marithaven

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yagyujubei said:
I wouldn't try to seal the cracks at this stage, you could trap bacteria in the wound.It's good that he's had water. Keep offering different types of food, but he can go a long time without eating, so don't worry if he doesn't eat right now. Let him have as much water as he wants.

Thanx a lot for the advise, waht do you think i should do with his semi hibernation state he is in. Let him hibernate and take him out once a week to clean the wounds????
 

Jacqui

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First clarify, if you can, what you mean by the whole shell moves when you pick him up.

This to me is a pretty tough choice. Hingebacks can be stubborn and not eat. They also can stress easy in captivity. So on one hand, I would say to let him go, especially knowing that tortoises can naturally heal from a lot of really really bad injuries.

The other hand, is the concern with the injury issue. The injuries don't look bad in pictures, but your saying there is more damage then what we are able to see (that it's more an injury you can feel or only see in movement). I am a strong believer normally that you keep a sick or injured animal up rather then allowing it to hibernate.

The third option is to keep him up and then do a modified hibernation (under human control and observation) once your more sure of his wounds. One you can easily remove him to check on him every so often, not letting him back into the wild for hibernation or even your yard. Do you have the ability to keep him inside with correct heating and everything?

For eating, as was said, they can go for awhile without food. Just keep offering him foods. Is he acting like he is wanting to go into hibernation?
 

Laura

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and since he is a wild tort.. i would not handle or pester much at all.. We are big scary predators to them. seclude him, wiht proper shelter, heat and food a.d watch from afar..
good save...
 

marithaven

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Good morning
When I pick him up you cn feel the shell moving. When I turn him on his dide the crack opens slightly. When i soak him in betadine water and dry him you feel the shell moving. He definitely wants to hibernate. Soaking him in water does not let his tummy go. I think its empty. He does not move around only enough to move into a corner and sleep. His eyes wont open completely until you soak him. From Sunday i have not seen any body waste of liquids excreted He only sleeps. According to our books it is time for them to Hibernate from May to early September.
We all of a sudden - not normal- have a cold and rainy April- No Sun
We do have ultra voilet lights, a big egg incubator with fans, thermometrs, lights and we used it for sick birds as well.
I feel so sorry for this little guy to just let him loose and maybe he does not wake up again. How do i keep him awake???
 

Jacqui

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You will need to keep him on an inside enclosure of some kind. You will need to keep a light on him (basically a making it feel and look like the sun is shining) during the day. Make sure during the day the temps are about 75F (mimicking the sun's warmth). Here we can get a UVb light which also gives heat, do you have those available to you there? He will need a hide of some kind, where he can go to get out of the light, as he wishes. They also offer security. In the hide, here I would put old tree leaves or long strand sphagnum moss, not sure what you have their to use, but would assume you at this time may have some old leaves that have fallen for the winter. Use any leaf that is safe for them to eat.

Do warm soaks and then it helps to try to get them to feed right after those warm soaks. You may have to physically place him under the light/heat a couple of times a day. Temp him with foods that seem to be relished by the hingebacks in your area.

Keep in mind with the shell moving like it is, this guy may have internal damage done that may kill him any how. You know, I might try to do a support type bandage on him. My thinking is, if every time he moves, he reopens his cracks, they are not going to be able to heal. Still no weeping or smell from thu correct?
 

marithaven

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Hallo Jacqui
Thank you for your response.
Yes we have available in South Africa the infrared lights also the uv lights for reptiles.
Ido have him under a light in a small box with thesse you have mentioned.
I bought a eye serum today for him because his eyes are dried out and it takes him about 10 minutes before he can open his eyes.
I wil do the bandage thing now. It is a 2weeks here by us that is about all hollidays and our vet is away on holiday. will keep him still and steady until my vet is baxk and see if we can have blood test done as well for parasites and also for internal injuries. I have tried all but he just wants to sleep. I keep the crack clean with Betadine. After each soak i can still see the pink flesh but it looks better already.
Thank you once again for the advice:D
 

Jacqui

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Do you know what temps the hotter side is (night and day temps) and then the same for the cooler side? If we get him too hot, he will not be active either. It's a fine line you need to walk. :D

Your still giving him warm water soaks correct?

Now once he has his eyes open, how long would you say he stays "awake"? How much moving does he do at that time?

I would take the bandages off, while you soak him each day. That way you can be sure nothing is getting trapped under it and that nothing starts to look infected under neath too. Are the flies bad in your area? I know here this week in my own house I think I am being invaded. :cool: We want to make sure the flies leave him alone. I would also bandage just enough to give him some support and keep him from reopening his wounds, but still allow air to get in.

Betadine is normally only used at first. Can you by any chance get Silvadene cream over there? Have no idea what might be similar there and you may need to get it from the Vet.

Ever notice when something like this happens it is either after hours, the Vet is gone, or like in your case on vacation. Well, no problem your going to be keeping this fellow going until the Vet gets back, so we can all know just what has happened inside this fellow that we can't really see.

You are doing great with this little guy! :tort:
 

marithaven

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Jacqui said:
Do you know what temps the hotter side is (night and day temps) and then the same for the cooler side? If we get him too hot, he will not be active either. It's a fine line you need to walk. :D

Your still giving him warm water soaks correct?

Now once he has his eyes open, how long would you say he stays "awake"? How much moving does he do at that time?

I would take the bandages off, while you soak him each day. That way you can be sure nothing is getting trapped under it and that nothing starts to look infected under neath too. Are the flies bad in your area? I know here this week in my own house I think I am being invaded. :cool: We want to make sure the flies leave him alone. I would also bandage just enough to give him some support and keep him from reopening his wounds, but still allow air to get in.

Betadine is normally only used at first. Can you by any chance get Silvadene cream over there? Have no idea what might be similar there and you may need to get it from the Vet.

Ever notice when something like this happens it is either after hours, the Vet is gone, or like in your case on vacation. Well, no problem your going to be keeping this fellow going until the Vet gets back, so we can all know just what has happened inside this fellow that we can't really see.

You are doing great with this little guy! :tort:
Hello Jacqui
I am Back and it is nice to be.
Yes all these things always happens the weirdest times. Luckily we have a nephew that is really good with all the animals.
I have wonderful news about the little one.
We got home on Friday and the little one was wide awake walking around slowly. I gave i a warm soak and offered him some food. He is very finicky about what he wants. The only food he wants to eat at this stage is tomato, carrot, mango, one type of Aalwyn-although not much of it, green pepper, hibiscus flower and Kappertjie flowers. I am happy because he eats.... and yesterday he made a poo-poo. I nearly jumped through the roof with excitement. He had no internal injuries, no parasites only his back leg is not healed yet. I don't know whether it is broken or just sprained. Just before we went away we used nail technician fibre glass strips and a antifungal resin and patched up all the broken areas and then covered that with nail technician acrylic powder cement which is porous so the shell can still breathe if it does so. Ever since we done that he moves around. During the day i take him outside to enjoy the sun. I noticed he is not eating lawn grass but inside i think he eats small amount of lucerne. Jacqui i don't know their diet and i know so little about these little hinge backs. I know i cannot let him hibernate now... too scared he didn't have enough nutrition to last him through those couple of months in hibernation. At least he is now awake moving eating and does all the things a tortoise should do. I am growing fond of him and it will hurt if i cannot keep him due to my inexperience of this hingeback. Please help me with their diet and space needed, how often they need to eat and all you know.
 
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