Do we have a kinosternon expert?
- Thread starter juli11
- Start date
Maybe @tortadise or if I have this one correct, @Anthony P
Yep maybe they know it good idea. I have a friend who has a pair of kinosternon and he doesn't know what it is... He has these animals over 17 years ( he took them with him from Mexico when this was legal)
but he can't identify this twos. He is an turtle expert and showed them other experts too but nobody were able to identify them.
I'll get good pics of them in the next days I'll post them.
Only info: come from Mexico; female: 14-15cm male 15-16cm
but he can't identify this twos. He is an turtle expert and showed them other experts too but nobody were able to identify them.
I'll get good pics of them in the next days I'll post them.
Only info: come from Mexico; female: 14-15cm male 15-16cm
I am not at all. I do know quite a few from there though, you have Tabasco, Chiapas giant, vampire, scorpion, man I honestly don't know how many. I know others elsewhere than the forum that can ID them for him.
Berkeley
Active Member
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- May 4, 2014
- Messages
- 296
They do all kind of blend together....
Juli11, put up those pics when you get them. We'll see if that helps!
--Berkeley
Pics of the plastron will be necessary in determining Mexican Kinosternon species.
Just saw this post this morning so I'm sorry for the late reply.
For starters it would be very helpful to know where in Mexico the turtles came from. There are quite a number of Mexican Kinosternids and many are in what are known as 'complexes'. For example the Kinosternon scorpioides complex has a bunch of similar looking subspecies or sister species.
Head shots are helpful too but then on older specimens this becomes less useful.
OK, going by the shot of the tight fitting rear lobe of the plastron you have given us we can rule out Staurotypus and Claudius.
Kinosternon herrerai, sonoriense and all of the flavescens complex animals possess small rear lobes of the plastron that do not completely cover the soft parts, so it's none of those species.
The plastron and domed carapace scream Kinosternon scorpioides cruentatum (red-cheek mud turtle)---except that the seam of the rear lobe is not straight across the plastron as it usually is with red-cheek mud turtles. Instead it's curved and forms a subtle 'U' shape that Kinosternon integrum and K. leucostomum have. Still, it looks so much like an old red-cheek and the further south you go in Mexico (and especially south of Mexico) the more this seam becomes curved and less straight.
There are other Mexican Kinosternids that have this U-shaped plastral seam but these are smaller, less bulky species so I would rule them out.
Kinosternon leucostomum can look similar to your turtle when very old but they usually have a more pointed rear lobe on their plastrons and a flatter carapace so I would rule out that species too.
That leaves you with cruentatum or integrum, both of which can be rather large, box turtle-like in shape. Both have thick and heavy shells too.
Kinosternon integrum, the Mexican mud turtle, is very common in Mexico and has a variable head pattern that is USUALLY mottled or marbled in appearance. On an older specimen though I'm not so sure.
So until we get more photos, I'm going with either a red-cheek or a Mexican mud turtle. Of course, this is ASSUMING that the turtle in the photo was actually collected in Mexico.
For starters it would be very helpful to know where in Mexico the turtles came from. There are quite a number of Mexican Kinosternids and many are in what are known as 'complexes'. For example the Kinosternon scorpioides complex has a bunch of similar looking subspecies or sister species.
Head shots are helpful too but then on older specimens this becomes less useful.
OK, going by the shot of the tight fitting rear lobe of the plastron you have given us we can rule out Staurotypus and Claudius.
Kinosternon herrerai, sonoriense and all of the flavescens complex animals possess small rear lobes of the plastron that do not completely cover the soft parts, so it's none of those species.
The plastron and domed carapace scream Kinosternon scorpioides cruentatum (red-cheek mud turtle)---except that the seam of the rear lobe is not straight across the plastron as it usually is with red-cheek mud turtles. Instead it's curved and forms a subtle 'U' shape that Kinosternon integrum and K. leucostomum have. Still, it looks so much like an old red-cheek and the further south you go in Mexico (and especially south of Mexico) the more this seam becomes curved and less straight.
There are other Mexican Kinosternids that have this U-shaped plastral seam but these are smaller, less bulky species so I would rule them out.
Kinosternon leucostomum can look similar to your turtle when very old but they usually have a more pointed rear lobe on their plastrons and a flatter carapace so I would rule out that species too.
That leaves you with cruentatum or integrum, both of which can be rather large, box turtle-like in shape. Both have thick and heavy shells too.
Kinosternon integrum, the Mexican mud turtle, is very common in Mexico and has a variable head pattern that is USUALLY mottled or marbled in appearance. On an older specimen though I'm not so sure.
So until we get more photos, I'm going with either a red-cheek or a Mexican mud turtle. Of course, this is ASSUMING that the turtle in the photo was actually collected in Mexico.
Berkeley
Active Member
- Joined
- May 4, 2014
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- 296
Carl, you are the Man! What a great breakdown.
--Berkeley
--Berkeley
My head just exploded. Lol. Excellent information.
Mine did too. I think we've found our expert!
Lol yep. Carl is full of knowledge indeed.
Yeah, he's okay ;-)
You da man, Carl
You da man, Carl
