Dog-proofing

[thatrebecca]

We've recently added a dog to our home, and are preparing for when our juvenile CDTs wake up from brumation.

I've read the very helpful threads on dogs and torts, and will under no condition be leaving these guys alone together.

But I would like to hear more thoughts on best practices.

We're planning to top our outdoor enclosures with welded wire mesh. Our for-nights-and-rainy-days-only indoor enclosures are moving from the laundry room, which the dog has access to when we're not home, to a shed, which he does not. (We'll also be adding a heat source, which was not necessary in the house).

Question: Prior to getting the dog, we often allowed our torts outside their enclosures to roam the wider yard when we were outside to supervise them. If we're outside with the dog, is this a practice we can continue? Obviously this is something we would NEVER do unsupervised, but is it possible to have the whole human/animal family outside together?

Our dog, Dude, an 18-month-old rescue shepherd mix, has been a quick and responsive learner so far -- in his first few days with us he learned which corner of the yard he's allowed to pee in, and went from jumping up to greet people at the door to calmly sniffing hello. He doesn't seem very prey driven -- he hardly reacts to the squirrels and neighborhood cats who hang out on our fence. He goes bonkers for praise, affection and food rewards.

Can we train him to leave the torts alone when we're there supervising?How should we introduce them?

 

[Levi the Leopard]

If you are there, I see no harm in letting the torts free roam the yard while the pooch is in your company. Should you discover he has a high interest in them during the roam time, keep him tethered to you while you work on his obedience.

I'll let other give you advise on how to introduce the dog to the Torts.

We currently do not own a dog but my mom brings her Maltese over here and we occasionally dog sit. He will go with me into the yard but could care less about the torts. Then he goes right back into the house with me. He's never alone with them but isn't even interested in them when we are out there.

Good luck

 

[sibi]

I wouldn't even introduce the torts to your new dog. In the yard and in the corner where you let your dog poop and pee, there is always a possibility that the torts will go there to eat the poop. It's what they do. The best way to keep the torts from looking and smelling out poop is to not let the torts near the space. You can use cement blocks to keep them out. Train the dog to go over the blocks to pee. If not, when your torts wake up, they'll head right over to the poop...unless you clean up immediately afterwards.

Going back to introductions, the dog will eventually see the torts. This is the time you may want to train the dog to leave the torts alone. However, even if you are present when the two are there, it is still a dangerous situation for your torts. I think you should have two separate times to let the dog and torts out. You can let the torts have their yard for a set number of hours, then, put them in a safe place where the dog cannot get to them, and let the dog have his time in the yard. That's how I would do it. I'd never let them out together even if the dog is supervised. That's my opinion and advise.

 

[Kele7710]

I wouldn't even introduce the torts to your new dog. In the yard and in the corner where you let your dog poop and pee, there is always a possibility that the torts will go there to eat the poop. It's what they do. The best way to keep the torts from looking and smelling out poop is to not let the torts near the space. You can use cement blocks to keep them out. Train the dog to go over the blocks to pee. If not, when your torts wake up, they'll head right over to the poop...unless you clean up immediately afterwards.

Going back to introductions, the dog will eventually see the torts. This is the time you may want to train the dog to leave the torts alone. However, even if you are present when the two are there, it is still a dangerous situation for your torts. I think you should have two separate times to let the dog and torts out. You can let the torts have their yard for a set number of hours, then, put them in a safe place where the dog cannot get to them, and let the dog have his time in the yard. That's how I would do it. I'd never let them out together even if the dog is supervised. That's my opinion and advise.

I personally wouldn't introduce the dog to tortoises, I did with mine and 3 days later my dog stole Stanley from his tortoise table and thought he had found a lovely chew £ 500 vet bill later and Stanley is on the mend

 

[thatrebecca]

Thanks for the input, guys! We actually do clean after every poop -- and hose down the residue. (Hubby is a nut for his yard).

Anyway, couple more questions:

1) If anyone has pix of a dog-proof enclosure that uses the mesh, I'd love to see it, especially your access door.

2) We're planning to treat the yard with food-grade diatomaceous earth for fleas, per our vet's suggestion. Has anyone out there used it in a yard with torts and can verify its safety for them? We wouldn't be using it in their enclosures, but if they have access to the larger yard they could encounter it.

 

[wellington]

I personally would introduce the dog to the tortoises. The second he shows any interest to them, looks at them, you give him a big stern NO and make him move or at least look away and proceed doing this, even when he just looks at them. He will learn he will not be in a happy place if he pays any attention to them. Now, that said, this still does not mean they will be trained to leave them when your not looking. So, yes, you can let them all, torts and dog be in the same yard when supervised, as long as you can give the supervision 100 percent of your attention. Just seconds of lost attention can equal a chewed tort.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I use DE all the time. It's perfectly fine for the torts. It never did much for fleas though..... But works great at ridding you of ants! Lol
I bought 20 million beneficial nematodes to try and battle fleas safely. (thank you stray cats in my area...)

 

[Tom]

Remember where my leopards were in the big outdoor "cage". Thats one way to do it. Best case is to have the tortoise area separated from the dog area with a fence of some sort.

There is no reason why you can't all be outside together supervised. You start with the dog on leash so you have complete control and as training advances and months go by, you can move to a long drag line and eventually off leash if all goes well.

I wouldn't set out to intentionally introduce them. At some time when you all happen to be outside and the dog notices the tortoises, tell him "leave it" with as many sharp corrections as you need to get him to turn his attention away from them. I would not let him sniff and "get to know them". Treat the tortoises, as far as the dog is concerned, as if they were a potentially poisoned hamburger left on the sidewalk in front of your house. The dog does not need to get to know the hamburger, he needs a clear message of stay away from it and don't touch it, even though he wants it bad. He should feel inhibited about the tortoises and not want to go near them. A book could be written about all the in and outs of this. There are a million variable and contingencies. Don't be afraid to ask for professional help. I'll help you anytime, but if you'd rather hire somebody closer I understand. You guys know how to reach me if you want some help.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I like the poison hamburger analogy!

 

[thatrebecca]

I love the poison hamburger analogy, Tom! That's great and so helpful. We've started doing that with the tort enclosure already. It's an off-limits spot like the furniture. So far so good.

You'll be our first stop if we enlist a pro. We know the Babe Ruth of animal trainers. Why would we go hire a minor leaguer?

 

[AnnV]

I would teach the dog the "leave it" command starting now. Use food or whatever other objects. Then when the time comes, your pup will have a clear understanding.

I have 6 dogs. Five are under 20 lbs and one is 80 lbs. The dogs have their own fenced yard, but they are often loose on the property while we are out together. I have not introduced my loose dogs to loose torts. But there have been times I am carrying the torts, or they are in a position where the dogs could freely sniff at them. Any strong interest is met with my 'step away from the object' reaction (which is often just a primal grunt-lol), and they respond immediately.
It was the same with my chickens. Amazingly, my Poodles, who were trained, and very keen to retrieve ducks, pheasants, and pigeons, immediately understood that the chickens were off limits. My Shepherd, who was rescued as an older pup, took a few more persistant corrections, but I think it was more of her herding instincts that kept her initial interest in the flock.

 

[Yvonne G]

I've solved the dog/tortoise problem by never allowing the dog out the front door unless I've gone through it first (all of my tortoise yards are out the front door). Misty is never out front unless I'm out there too. She weighs about 80lbs, but she's a house dog.

Right from puppyhood, she has never shown an interest in the tortoises except to eat their poop (which I try to curtail). She will stand behind an Aldabran tortoise waiting for the poop to come out the tail, but she understands the 'drop it' command and will drop it so I can scoop it up. But there's no doubt in my mind that she would chew one of the smaller tortoises or turtles if given the chance.

 

[wellington]

Yvonne, the human out the door before the dog is the way they are suppose to be trained. Any dog out first, gives him the right (he thinks) to be the head honcho, which is a big no no with dogs, well if you want to control them that is. I didn't mean to take the dog an let him sniff them. Let him be where he can see them, so you can start the training right away that they are like Tom said, the poison hamburger. But still never trust them alone. I can put any of my animals on my dogs back. She won't even look at them. She doesn't like it either that I did that. But she knows she better not pay them any attention or else. I still would not do that and walk away or turn my head. At least at the time I am there, I am the boss and in her mind the others on her back too.

 

[kathyth]

Error

Will repost

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We have 4 dogs that are a definite part oft he family. We have set it up so that the dogs can be outside with us and the tortoises are safely in their enclosures walking around.
Tortoises are like rawhide to dogs.

Here are some pictures of what we created.
The wooden gate keeps the dogs out of the various tortoise enclosures ( garden area)
There is hardware cloth on the inside of this wooden fence.

Below are pictures of the Juvenile Redfoot enclosure, using hardware cloth.











Maybe one of these photos will help.

Good luck!

 

[thatrebecca]

Error

Will repost

---

We have 4 dogs that are a definite part oft he family. We have set it up so that the dogs can be outside with us and the tortoises are safely in their enclosures walking around.
Tortoises are like rawhide to dogs.

Here are some pictures of what we created.
The wooden gate keeps the dogs out of the various tortoise enclosures ( garden area)
There is hardware cloth on the inside of this wooden fence.

Below are pictures of the Juvenile Redfoot enclosure, using hardware cloth.











Maybe one of these photos will help.

Good luck!

---

Thanks a million for these photos. They're an inspiration!

 

[joncro55]

As far as enclosure for the dog in the yard - I am not exactly sure that metal mesh will be the way to go. In my opinion, you will be dealing with a lot of dangerous sharp edges - read more about the welded and woven wire mesh here www.bwire.com -

I know this is a tort forum - but lets not go killing dogs!

Best way to keep them separate and away from one another is probably to never introduce them - they may appear to be the best of friends, but when you are not around, their behavior will be completely unpredictable.