dry tortoise shell?

[Yingg]

I took the time to re read your thread in case there was anything missed, I think you’re doing the absolute best you can and I would hate for you to have to rehome her, that’ll be last resort if there’s a problem with you taking her to college. Would you be able to house her in something larger there?

If the bigger indoor set up is a no go, it could well be worth getting her set up outdoors so she has more room to roam each day, what are temps like out there ground level? if you’re noticing she’s always digging when out, it could be it’s slightly too warm and she needs more shade, but perhaps get your gun out and do some checks
I think even though you say your yard is fenced, many have still been able to escape if you aren’t there supervising, even with the tape on her shell. That’s why it is definitely worth getting something a bit more reinforced set up, that way you don’t have to worry about only letting her roam when you are home, you’ll know she’s safe.

I think I’d personally stop applying any product to her shell, but I’m curious what others think.


The tortoises shell has been soft for quite a while now between the scutes, could definitely be new growth taking place, but they’ve also said she’s starting to drag herself as she walks.
They’re working on improving her diet but she is picky due to previous limitations, so it’s still not super varied, but they’re given the needed supplements.
She previously had what looked like some edema, that seems to have improved a little?
She get 4 hours outdoors every two days during the week, and 6 hours on weekends, the rest of the time they are housed in 36x16 inches indoors, soon to be upgraded to 34x44 inches. Her owner lives with their parents who won’t let them go any bigger indoors, we’re currently in discussions about the possibility of building a larger outdoor space. They will be moving to college soon, where I’m guessing outdoors may not be an option, and planned to be housed in the upgrade, so unsure on how to proceed with next steps and debating rehome, which won’t necessarily be the best option for this tortoise, she clearly has some issues going on and there’s no telling the right new owner will come along.

Positives are, tortoise is active, eating and pooping well

I guess the main concern right now is why she’s started to drag when walking, and how to address the issue with set up size moving forward.

@Tom I’m curious, the tortoise is around 15 years old according to the original post, @Yingg is that how long you’ve had her? And she looks virtually fully grown, if the softness is definitely new growth? I know Russians grow slower, but I was just wondering.

I’m genuinely so sorry you’re in this tricky positionI hope we can help in any way we can!

she's kind have been this size for a while now. i've had her for nearly a decade now. i think i'll stop the oil, yes. maybe more soaks.oh and as for the drag, she's always been dragging. i'm concerned because it hasn't gotten much better, even though i let her out more. outside temps range from 70-95 in the sun, California weather it's very comfy. she has places to hide. i think she just likes digging. once she hides she never comes out. effectively, even though she's outside, she only walks maybe ~200 feet and then hides under the same exact log every time. i usually pick her up and put her back at the start so she walks more, lol. or i just walk around with her in my neighborhood, she's pretty fast and i'm pretty slow.

i really don't want to rehome her. it's selfish, but i think i want to take responsibility. i'm 17 now, i should be able to do this. i gót in contact with a nice vet, who has tortoises of her own and specializes in tortoises. i know her coworker personally. i will go to her if i need anything. (if my parents allow it.) as for the yard, i'll try to reinforce the fence. there are logs (heavy) everywhere, and i'll move them against the wall/fence so she can't dig under. she's big on digging. please expect new enclosure updates this weekend. im swamped in work so they may be slow, but i want to make her enclosure ASAP since everything arrived last week

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

she's kind have been this size for a while now. i've had her for nearly a decade now. i think i'll stop the oil, yes. maybe more soaks.oh and as for the drag, she's always been dragging. i'm concerned because it hasn't gotten much better, even though i let her out more. outside temps range from 70-95 in the sun, California weather it's very comfy. she has places to hide. i think she just likes digging. once she hides she never comes out. effectively, even though she's outside, she only walks maybe ~200 feet and then hides under the same exact log every time. i usually pick her up and put her back at the start so she walks more, lol. or i just walk around with her in my neighborhood, she's pretty fast and i'm pretty slow.

i really don't want to rehome her. it's selfish, but i think i want to take responsibility. i'm 17 now, i should be able to do this. i gót in contact with a nice vet, who has tortoises of her own and specializes in tortoises. i know her coworker personally. i will go to her if i need anything. (if my parents allow it.) as for the yard, i'll try to reinforce the fence. there are logs (heavy) everywhere, and i'll move them against the wall/fence so she can't dig under. she's big on digging. please expect new enclosure updates this weekend. im swamped in work so they may be slow, but i want to make her enclosure ASAP since everything arrived last week

Was it where you got her from that gave you an age estimate of 5 and you’ve added on the ten years you’ve had her to give the age 15? Where was she from? If a chain pet store, they likely had no real clue on her age, she looks wild caught to me, and full grown, leading me to think this shell softness isn’t new growth, taking that into consideration with the fact you say she’s always dragged herself walking, Im tempted to say there could be some MBD going on, obviously I can’t say for sure, but I feel like it’s a possibility

I’m glad you’ve seemed to have found a better vet! Might be worth asking them about the possibility

Yeah sounds good, reinforce every bit of fencing, provide lots of hides, and I see no reason she can’t have a bit more outdoors time with things made safer

 

[Yingg]

Was it where you got her from that gave you an age estimate of 5 and you’ve added on the ten years you’ve had her to give the age 15? Where was she from? If a chain pet store, they likely had no real clue on her age, she looks wild caught to me, and full grown, leading me to think this shell softness isn’t new growth, taking that into consideration with the fact you say she’s always dragged herself walking, Im tempted to say there could be some MBD going on, obviously I can’t say for sure, but I feel like it’s a possibility

I’m glad you’ve seemed to have found a better vet! Might be worth asking them about the possibility

Yeah sounds good, reinforce every bit of fencing, provide lots of hides, and I see no reason she can’t have a bit more outdoors time with things made safer

an old vet gave the estimate! if she has MBD what should i do? and noted, i'll be reinforcing the fence ^^

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

an old vet gave the estimate! if she has MBD what should i do? and noted, i'll be reinforcing the fence ^^

Right ok, I mean they probably gave a decent educated guess, but I’m thinking there’s the potential she’s actually older, meaning it’s not growth taking place, again I can’t be certain.

With MBD I have no personal experience, I’m sure someone can answer to how to take extra care, but ultimately I think it’s just down to doing the best husbandry and diet possible. Again I’m not certain she does, I just think it could be a possibility and would definitely explain some of the issues she’s having

 

[Yingg]

Right ok, I mean they probably gave a decent educated guess, but I’m thinking there’s the potential she’s actually older, meaning it’s not growth taking place, again I can’t be certain.

With MBD I have no personal experience, I’m sure someone can answer to how to take extra care, but ultimately I think it’s just down to doing the best husbandry and diet possible. Again I’m not certain she does, I just think it could be a possibility and would definitely explain some of the issues she’s having

oh, it's okay. hopefully someone sees this thread. i think i will give calcium supplements and maybe kale/collard greens (?) those have calcium right?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

oh, it's okay. hopefully someone sees this thread. i think i will give calcium supplements and maybe kale/collard greens (?) those have calcium right?

They do but I wouldn’t overdo it on those, they’re high in goitrogens but they’re fine as part of a variation

 

[Yingg]

They do but I wouldn’t overdo it on those, they’re high in goitrogens but they’re fine as part of a variation

thanks, i'll stick to calcium supplements then. tomorrow i will record her walking. she fell asleep and if i move her, she becomes a rock. how often are they supposed to poop, by the way? i see poop in her enclosure but i never have seen her actually.... poop. i'm not sure if i ever managed to keep track. she poops a lot in soaks though ^^

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

if she has MBD what should i do?

@wellington and @Tom can probably advice you on the MBD. Maybe at home hydrotherapy could help?

The best think you can do is perfect his set up and aspire for a healthy diet high in calcium and provide a good quality UVB.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

thanks, i'll stick to calcium supplements then. tomorrow i will record her walking. she fell asleep and if i move her, she becomes a rock. how often are they supposed to poop, by the way? i see poop in her enclosure but i never have seen her actually.... poop. i'm not sure if i ever managed to keep track. she poops a lot in soaks though ^^

Sounds good, will be good to get a visual on how she moves. Generally adults can poop every other day, it wont necessarily be every day, if she’s doing a good amount of pooping during her soaks, and you’re seeing it in the enclosure, I wouldn’t worry too much on that side of things

 

[wellington]

@wellington and @Tom can probably advice you on the MBD. Maybe at home hydrotherapy could help?

The best think you can do is perfect his set up and aspire for a healthy diet high in calcium and provide a good quality UVB.

I skimmed thru this thread. I didn't see where any size of enclosure was mentioned until one of the vets said it was to small, but I didn't see the size listed.
Your tortoise doesn't look to have MBD. The walking issue is likely because she has been in too small and enclosure for far to long. I had to rescue a leopard kept like that and he was stunted and couldn't walk. Start hydrotherapy on her, put her in deep enough water she can't touch the bottom, use your tub. Assist her if she just sinks. Make her swim laps about 3 times back and forth daily until she can walk properly and get her in an appropriate size enclosure, 4x8 foot minimum. If you can get her outside 24/7 then build her an appropriate outside enclosure and night box. Tortoises only get fat when they don't have the proper room to roam.

 

[Yingg]

I skimmed thru this thread. I didn't see where any size of enclosure was mentioned until one of the vets said it was to small, but I didn't see the size listed.
Your tortoise doesn't look to have MBD. The walking issue is likely because she has been in too small and enclosure for far to long. I had to rescue a leopard kept like that and he was stunted and couldn't walk. Start hydrotherapy on her, put her in deep enough water she can't touch the bottom, use your tub. Assist her if she just sinks. Make her swim laps about 3 times back and forth daily until she can walk properly and get her in an appropriate size enclosure, 4x8 foot minimum. If you can get her outside 24/7 then build her an appropriate outside enclosure and night box. Tortoises only get fat when they don't have the proper room to roam.

my parents won't alllow 8x4 , the biggest they allow is 44x34 inches. (actually a bit smaller because of how thick the wood is. ) i will let her outside daily though, and i hope that helps a bit... i will try hydrotherapy, thanks for the tips!

 

[wellington]

my parents won't alllow 8x4 , the biggest they allow is 44x34 inches. (actually a bit smaller because of how thick the wood is. ) i will let her outside daily though, and i hope that helps a bit... i will try hydrotherapy, thanks for the tips!

Have you considered a second level or if you can build her an outdoor enclosure?
If you can't find a way to do the minimum you may have to consider rehoming her. You are already seeing the affects of being housed in a too small enclosure.

 

[Yingg]

Have you considered a second level or if you can build her an outdoor enclosure?
If you can't find a way to do the minimum you may have to consider rehoming her. You are already seeing the affects of being housed in a too small enclosure.

i was thinking of a second level, yes. as for the outdoor, if things go as planned, she'll be outside for maybe 12 hours a day. is that alright?

 

[Yingg]

Have you considered a second level or if you can build her an outdoor enclosure?
If you can't find a way to do the minimum you may have to consider rehoming her. You are already seeing the affects of being housed in a too small enclosure.

i'd like to not rehome if possible. i want to try my best to keep her and upgrade everything. when i move out in a year, i hope it'll get better. or, in two years (max) i'll get an apartment or rent, then i'll basically donate a whole room to her. if i trulý have to rehome, id like it to be a person from this forum, here in California. though again, i love her dearly and i want to make my amends. i'm seeing the affects, of course. because i already housed her in a small enclosure. of course there are negative effects. i'm trying the best i can to make her a liveable environment with my parents around.

also, do you think she could stay outside in california winters?

 

[wellington]

i'd like to not rehome if possible. i want to try my best to keep her and upgrade everything. when i move out in a year, i hope it'll get better. or, in two years (max) i'll get an apartment or rent, then i'll basically donate a whole room to her. if i trulý have to rehome, id like it to be a person from this forum, here in California. though again, i love her dearly and i want to make my amends. i'm seeing the affects, of course. because i already housed her in a small enclosure. of course there are negative effects. i'm trying the best i can to make her a liveable environment with my parents around.

also, do you think she could stay outside in california winters?

I can tell you are really trying your best. I'd hate for you to rehome her too. But it might end up being the best for her. If you could do the second level, that would help.
Yes,if you could give an appropriate size enclosure outside, having her out all day and only bringing her in at night would help a lot too.
@Tom can answer the winter outside question.

 

[Yingg]

I can tell you are really trying your best. I'd hate for you to rehome her too. But it might end up being the best for her. If you could do the second level, that would help.
Yes,if you could give an appropriate size enclosure outside, having her out all day and only bringing her in at night would help a lot too.
@Tom can answer the winter outside question.

is the 44x34 okay only for nighttime? maybe 12-16 hours a day?

 

[wellington]

is the 44x34 okay only for nighttime? maybe 12-16 hours a day?

Yes, then she'd mainly just be sleeping. It's the roaming hours she needs the room to get the exercise and muscle strength she needs.

 

[Yingg]

Yes, then she'd mainly just be sleeping. It's the roaming hours she needs the room to get the exercise and muscle strength she needs.

perfect! i think i'll do just that ) she sleeps a lot. i usually let her out from 4-7 pm every day at least right now. it's not enough but i think i'll reinforce the fence like @Littleredfootbigredheart said, and i'll let her roam before going to school. or i'll ask my mom to put her outside. it's cold in the morning, and i have class at 8 am. at 8 it is 50 degrees, so i might let her out from 11-7. that's 8 hours, is that okay?

 

[wellington]

perfect! i think i'll do just that ) she sleeps a lot. i usually let her out from 4-7 pm every day at least right now. it's not enough but i think i'll reinforce the fence like @Littleredfootbigredheart said, and i'll let her roam before going to school. or i'll ask my mom to put her outside. it's cold in the morning, and i have class at 8 am. at 8 it is 50 degrees, so i might let her out from 11-7. that's 8 hours, is that okay?

Sounds good.

 

[Yingg]

Sounds good.

i'll probably have to... get something set up for winter though. i think diaper + roam in house haha. is that okay?