Ear Abscesses in Redfoots

[Mantissa3]

Hi: I just found a great local tortoise forum on FB that I joined. They were telling both remedies and horror stories about ear abscesses in redfoots- but I imagine this is good for other species too.

One lady took her juvenile tortoise (recently rescued with an ear abscess) to a "reptile vet" who made the cross cut incision, drained the abscess, and the little tort was dead from loss of blood before they got her back home.

Many people talked about various vets lancing and cutting and draining and "popping" ear abscesses - ONLY AFTER THEY TURN WHITE AND HARD. Another lady said her herp vet won't touch the ear abscesses because he told her nature has already isolated the infection locally, and will take care of it- just make sure the tort is warm, soaked, eating normally, not being attacked by others in the herd, and make sure to monitor nutrition intake and output and they will heal naturally.

Many reported that the torts who are prone to abscessed ears have recurring abscesses in one or both ears over time.

Then, I found some hope that I wanted to share here - Another lady who is adamantly against vets until all other husbandry conditions have been explored and controlled posted this remedy that I believe everybody should try prior to cutting open a tortoises ear/head!

She puts a drop of copaiba essential oil on the tortoise in the morning, directly on the abscess, and then one drop at night directly on the abscess, and the abscess (according to her) completely clears up in one week.

http://www.nativeamericannutritionals.com/balsam-copaiba.htm

She also said she has tried other essential oil companies for her torts over the years, but after much research, she likes Native American Nutritionals best, as they use only organically-grown, stable herbs and plants, and take refinement and production seriously with respect to contaminants, storage, etc.

I ordered some, and it will now be part of my refrigerated pantry of tort home remedies in case my little ones develop abscesses.

I spoke to a natural healing herp vet, and he said we don't know how they survive these types of illnesses in the wild - for instance, if they eat a poison bug or toadstool, or get into some diseased carrion. Like I believe, he said there are probably some "go-to" barks, roots, and insects they seek out and eat, like perhaps copaiba which comes from South America, which is both a natural antibiotic and a natural anti-fungal in one compound...

Thought I'd post in case any of you who don't have a go-to herp vet closeby want to try it- don't use more than one drop each dose, morning and night though. And abscess, by all accounts I've read, take a long, long time to heal.

Cheers,
Karen

 

[Yvonne G]

I've lanced many ear abscesses in both turtles and tortoises. It doesn't bleed. Well, maybe a drop or two at the first cut, but not enough to bleed to death.

The trouble with leaving them alone to heal themselves is that what you see on the outside is only the tip of the iceburg. The other side of the swelling inhibits the animal from being able to swallow or eat.

I wait until the abscess ripens, then I make the X incision and get rid of all the hard pus. I haven't lost one yet. And I've never had a recurrence.

An ear abscess is usually because there is an infection someplace in the animal's body. It exhibits at the ear, but that's not where it starts.

 

[Killerrookie]

I've lanced many ear abscesses in both turtles and tortoises. It doesn't bleed. Well, maybe a drop or two at the first cut, but not enough to bleed to death.

The trouble with leaving them alone to heal themselves is that what you see on the outside is only the tip of the iceburg. The other side of the swelling inhibits the animal from being able to swallow or eat.

I wait until the abscess ripens, then I make the X incision and get rid of all the hard pus. I haven't lost one yet. And I've never had a recurrence.

An ear abscess is usually because there is an infection someplace in the animal's body. It exhibits at the ear, but that's not where it starts.

Is it kinda like a ear infection but far worse? I've never seen this and it's quiet interesting.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Very interesting.

 

[Mantissa3]

I've lanced many ear abscesses in both turtles and tortoises. It doesn't bleed. Well, maybe a drop or two at the first cut, but not enough to bleed to death.

The trouble with leaving them alone to heal themselves is that what you see on the outside is only the tip of the iceburg. The other side of the swelling inhibits the animal from being able to swallow or eat.

I wait until the abscess ripens, then I make the X incision and get rid of all the hard pus. I haven't lost one yet. And I've never had a recurrence.

An ear abscess is usually because there is an infection someplace in the animal's body. It exhibits at the ear, but that's not where it starts.

Thanks Yvonne! Yes, the vet in the ear abscess "horror story" that I shared, above, went too deep and cut into the tortoise's head - not just on the surface to lance the abscess as you do. I just wanted to share that natural, South American remedy in case anybody wants to try it before cutting.

After losing my baby recently to horrific veterinary case management, lack of diagnosis before she started trying to give him 5 different chemicals, and lack of any type of home care instructions along with all the drugs she prescribed- I'll forever be seeking better husbandry and gentler, more natural treatment methods. I still believe my little one did not have to die- vets just hack at their care, so I'm on the lookout for "alternative medicine" wherever possible.

 

[Mantissa3]

I've lanced many ear abscesses in both turtles and tortoises. It doesn't bleed. Well, maybe a drop or two at the first cut, but not enough to bleed to death.

The trouble with leaving them alone to heal themselves is that what you see on the outside is only the tip of the iceburg. The other side of the swelling inhibits the animal from being able to swallow or eat.

I wait until the abscess ripens, then I make the X incision and get rid of all the hard pus. I haven't lost one yet. And I've never had a recurrence.

An ear abscess is usually because there is an infection someplace in the animal's body. It exhibits at the ear, but that's not where it starts.

I just talked to a knowledgeable vet who told me ear abscesses are caused by vitamin A deficiency as the underlying cause of the problem. I'm always looking for the root cause, or the "why" we see the symptoms whenever possible. It's really quite good to know which techniques and medicines were useful to treat various conditions, but if we understand why the symptoms are there in the first place we may be able to prevent recurrence or first occurrence in other animals. Just my two pence. Karen

 

[johnsonnboswell]

My understanding is that vets blame a lot on lack of vitamin A, or they certainly used to. That, after all, is treatable. I believe that ear infections are related to other aspects of the environment, particularly humidity. Few vets will tell a client that their care is all wrong. They don't want to offend. They don't actually know. And they doubt there's any point because they don't expect compliance.

 

[Mantissa3]

Thanks for this response. I'm going g to do some more research. I think a lot of red foot problems actually ARE vitamin A problems, but I'm with Yvonne G. on never letting a vet inject vitamin A.

The vet I'm talking to, well, let's say I am cautiously optimist that he is not playing the blame game you mention, but not because of his medical credentials, which are impeccable by the way. I'm optimistic about him because I've watched him handle three tortoises with gentleness, care, respect and delight at their individual scale patterns, the way they react in his hands, etc. And also because he enthusiastically described the biological mechanism by which captive tortoises become vitamin and mineral deficient due to lack of basic necessities in the husbandry in most households.

I also have a friend who rescued a baby sully who had only been fed meat. This vet did surgery, removed a massive bladder stone, supervised long term care, patched the baby's shell so it knitted without any scarring, and the sully is now 55 pounds and happily digging up her fence posts.

I know this little bit of information doesn't make him a great herp vet, and I will never again place my torts blindly in the hands of a self proclaimed exotic animal vet. However, he is very thoughtful and extremely interested in accurate diagnostics, going from least invasive to increasingly more aggressive such as drawing blood, which is traumatic to rescues who already have human trust issues.

Cautiously optimistic that he will partner with our babies to help teach us some science and keep them healthy in our home environment, which is good husbandry and illness prevention...

Any bad experiences you have had would be very welcome information, please? I need and want to learn from everyone here.

Best,
Karen

 

[Yvonne G]

I know this is an older thread, Karen, but I just wanted to say, your new RF tortoise pictures in the gallery are great. This looks like a very, very old tortoise. Love the pictures.

 

[Mantissa3]

I know this is an older thread, Karen, but I just wanted to say, your new RF tortoise pictures in the gallery are great. This looks like a very, very old tortoise. Love the pictures.

Hey Yvonne: That must be Mr. Carl Sagan. He's a friend's tortoise that we now keep sometimes when they are out of town- I love him dearly. He's WC from the 1970's in Paraguay, when a bunch of hatchlings were rescued and brought to the States due to huge deforestation of their habitat for farms and town buildings. He's 35+ years old, with only one keeper- my friend. He's a cherryhead and a wonderful, willful guy with a massive personality. I feel blessed to know him and spend time with him when they are out of town!