Emotions, tortoises, reasoning, and humans

[dmmj]

Does lust count as an emotion? or turtles being " horny" is that an emotion? of course they feel soem emotions they get scared, they get happy I guess when food is around, during mating season, well we all know what happens during mating season. But does that equate emotions? I am not now or ever to equate them to human emotion. Do I love my animals, yes of course I do, do they love me? I can't say I find it funny that they are so called simple animals yet we wait on them hand and foot, I of course think not being able to make a lot of sounds beside hissing, handicaps them in that depratment. My dog and cat make sounds when they are happy (fooodtime), or sad( when I am going) or scared(fourth of july). I think this is a big topic and I won't find any answer tonight.

 

[bikerchicspain]

I think all living things have emotions, I think it is ignorant to think that only humans have emotions after all who is the biggest animal of them all "humans" i can tell when my animals are happy or unwell and even sad. Otherwise they wouldnt have the character they have and come to you when they see you, You would see them get emotional when in pain, okay so they dont laugh or cry,but show emotions in different ways that only the owner will recognise it, That is part of being such good owners because you are capable of noticing these things.. I know alot of you will disagrre with me, but working with animals i get to see it day to day and i believe they do...sorry if this offends anyone

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Can a tortoise experience love, hate, vengence... these are pretty much human emotions.

I can be pretty certain that the higher mammals can experience these very same emotions.

If you look up the definition of 'emotion' I would have to agree that tortoises experience emotions but they are no where near what the higher mammals experience.

This whole debate is not really about emotions as it is about anthropomorphizing. Transferring human/mammal traits to a reptile.

Most of the lower reptiles... which the tortoises are one of the most primitive... act on pure instinct. There is a little choice and thought but not even close to what some people project.

Transferring human/mammal traits to a reptile.

Candy/Dale - EJ.. you have said it as best as could be.

Terry K

 

[fifthdawn]

I think the gray area is around the definition of emotion. I think under some of the definitions, we can argue that even plants have emotions. What alot of us observe are pure behavior. Stimuli-response type of thing. Input-output. We can't be sure there is a mental state governing the behaviors instead of pure response to a stimuli. We just place emotions into these behaviors.

Understress, many trees will release a toxin around its leaves, making it poisonous for consumption. They will also release airborne chemicals to warn nearby trees to release the same chemicals. This is one form of communication. Plants tend to move or sway toward sunlight. Certain plants will change colors, lose leaves, shrink, etc, if neglected. They also grow bigger when you sing or talk to them. This sounds like a myth in past, but its proven that vibration causes certain stimulations in plants enchancing its growth. In this case, I can argue that my plants love it when I'm around, and they also love the sun because they move and grow more when I'm around. It seems almost as if it eats more when I'm around and doesn't eat when I'm gone. Certain grass, we call them "shy grass" curl up instantly to touch, almost as if its afraid. This is pure behavior that we're observing, yet I bet if we put cute little eyes on these green and purely vegetative beings and if theyre not rooted to the soil, we'd be more likely to say these things have emotions. Its as if they have love, hate, and fear. You see where I'm going? Like how reptile emotion is not at the same level as mammalian emotions, plants emotion isn't at the same level as reptilian emotion, none the less, they still have some degree of emotion.

 

[-EJ]

It was either the animal rights activists or the opposition that tried to use this in the 60s and 70s

I think the gray area is around the definition of emotion. I think under some of the definitions, we can argue that even plants have emotions. What alot of us observe are pure behavior. Stimuli-response type of thing. Input-output. We can't be sure there is a mental state governing the behaviors instead of pure response to a stimuli. We just place emotions into these behaviors.

Understress, many trees will release a toxin around its leaves, making it poisonous for consumption. They will also release airborne chemicals to warn nearby trees to release the same chemicals. This is one form of communication. Plants tend to move or sway toward sunlight. Certain plants will change colors, lose leaves, shrink, etc, if neglected. They also grow bigger when you sing or talk to them. This sounds like a myth in past, but its proven that vibration causes certain stimulations in plants enchancing its growth. In this case, I can argue that my plants love it when I'm around, and they also love the sun because they move and grow more when I'm around. It seems almost as if it eats more when I'm around and doesn't eat when I'm gone. Certain grass, we call them "shy grass" curl up instantly to touch, almost as if its afraid. This is pure behavior that we're observing, yet I bet if we put cute little eyes on these green and purely vegetative beings and if theyre not rooted to the soil, we'd be more likely to say these things have emotions. Its as if they have love, hate, and fear. You see where I'm going? Like how reptile emotion is not at the same level as mammalian emotions, plants emotion isn't at the same level as reptilian emotion, none the less, they still have some degree of emotion.

 

[fifthdawn]

I'm not old enough to know what happens during 60s and 70s, but yea, I wouldn't be suprised if animal rights activist use this argument. THey probably have the same definition of "emotion" that I think they have.

If your definition requires that certain animals, or all animals have emotions. You're left with two options, you must either accept that plants have emotions as well, otherwise you'll have to change your definition. And if you do change your definition, then what definition would you have that necessitates that animals have emotions and plants dont.

 

[terryo]

I think the gray area is around the definition of emotion. I think under some of the definitions, we can argue that even plants have emotions. What alot of us observe are pure behavior. Stimuli-response type of thing. Input-output. We can't be sure there is a mental state governing the behaviors instead of pure response to a stimuli. We just place emotions into these behaviors.

Understress, many trees will release a toxin around its leaves, making it poisonous for consumption. They will also release airborne chemicals to warn nearby trees to release the same chemicals. This is one form of communication. Plants tend to move or sway toward sunlight. Certain plants will change colors, lose leaves, shrink, etc, if neglected. They also grow bigger when you sing or talk to them. This sounds like a myth in past, but its proven that vibration causes certain stimulations in plants enchancing its growth. In this case, I can argue that my plants love it when I'm around, and they also love the sun because they move and grow more when I'm around. It seems almost as if it eats more when I'm around and doesn't eat when I'm gone. Certain grass, we call them "shy grass" curl up instantly to touch, almost as if its afraid. This is pure behavior that we're observing, yet I bet if we put cute little eyes on these green and purely vegetative beings and if theyre not rooted to the soil, we'd be more likely to say these things have emotions. Its as if they have love, hate, and fear. You see where I'm going? Like how reptile emotion is not at the same level as mammalian emotions, plants emotion isn't at the same level as reptilian emotion, none the less, they still have some degree of emotion.

I love it!!

 

[Candy]

I too love it. Good perspective.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

WOW.... recycled hippies man.....

NERD