Enclosure and humidity questions (russians)

[Jessica]

Hi!

I have been reading your posts and looking at your photos of your tortoises and enclosures, so I have some questions to ask...

If you didn't already know, I'm from Finland. And the number 1 rules for russian tortoises (here in Finland) are:

- big enclosure
- a little bit humidity

I don't know what you think about the space for russians, but here in Finland we have a "rule" that adult russian tortoises needs a 3 x 6 feet enclosure _minimum_? And that's just for one tortoise, two needs more space.

While looking at some enclosurephotos here, I was just wondering, aren't some of them too small? Or do you maybe let your russians outside more often, so do you have a bigger enclosure for them there?

The other thing I was thinking about is the humidity in your russians enclosures. Old researches here in Finland says, that russians don't need humidity that much. However, now they say that humidity is important, and that dry substrate causes pyramiding.

So I just wanted to ask you, how big are your russians enclosures, and how humid is the substrate? I just want to know if your care instructions are same as our care instructions in Finland.

SORRY again for my baaaaad english...try to understand

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Jessica:

I'm afraid your BA-a-a-ad English is way better than some of our BE-s-st English. Don't underestimate yourself!

The very best Russian habitat is an outdoor habitat with several sight barriers and lots of room to wander, and many, many weeds for him to graze on.

However, quite a few people who just have to have a tortoise, don't have the room or the weather to provide the ideal habitat, so they make do with what money they can afford and what space they can dedicate to an indoor habitat. I'm not condoning this, just saying it like it is. Personally, I would NEVER buy a tortoise if I couldn't set it up outside in a natural setting, but that's just me. I know that makes me sound like a snob, and I'm sorry, but we each feel what we feel, and that's how I feel.

Since you've said that you have read our threads, then you HAVE seen where we almost always say, "Bigger is better." Sometimes that gets lost in amongst all the other information. But, after "outside" it should rank right up there near the top of the list.

The russian tortoises don't pyramid as easily as say, for instance, a leopard or a sulcata, however a bit of humidity in the hide is helpful.

Care for tortoises should be the same all over the world. But getting your habitat to that "sameness" for that kind of tortoise is harder or easier, depending upon where in the world you live. If you live in the desert, then you have a very hard time getting the habitat to have any humidity. If you live in Florida, then you have a hard time keeping the habitat dry.

So, to answer your question, the "rules" are the same here as they are in Finland, it just takes more or less work to reach them. And quite a few new tortoise keepers start out with the wrong information, having listened to the clerk at the pet store, or because of their budget.

 

[chadk]

Yes, russians need good humidity. This is acheived in many ways - but often by a combo of heat + damp substrate. humid hides are also good things to use.

http://russiantortoise.org/care_sheet.htm

Oh, and this is a GREAT tutorial on substrate and hides that you should look at. He has it set up for a baby sulcata tort, but it is identical to what you should try to do for your russian.
http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-13370.html

 

[Jessica]

Yes, so... in Finland most time of the year it's waaaay too cold to have tortoises outside even if I would so want to give them everything they need.
My russian is outside in the summer, but it's warm enough only like from june to august/september. When I look outside now, we have like 2 feet snow on the ground ^^

But really, if we in Finland have smaller enclosures than recommended, it's against the law. If we don't have the money or the room to build/have a enclosure that is big enough, we can't buy a tortoise.

But maybe it's so important because we can't have them outside as much as you? Don't know...

 

[GBtortoises]

The more room that you can give them either indoors or outdoors is always going to be beneficial to the tortoises well being. Regardless of species.

I also live in area in the U.S. that has long cold winters and short summers. Up until just two weeks ago we also had several feet of snow on the ground. Our actual summer is from early June through late August. Our May and September are usually mild enough that tortoises are out and active.

My Russian tortoises are outdoors 24/7 usually starting in early May through late October. Our average summer temperatures during the daytime are in the mid 70's (Fahrenheit) with night often dropping below 50 degrees. They have always done fine here.

While it is true that young, growing Russian tortoises do need more amibient air humidity and substrate moisture this is to prevent pyramided growth while developing. This is not completely true of adults. They are accustomed to a hot, dry environment but will seek a cooler, humid retreat when they need to. That is not to say that they should be kept hot and dry all the time. If they are you will rarely see them out and active and they will spend long periods of time resting, waiting out the hot dry spell. But they should also not be kept in constant damp conditions either. Some species are accustomed to and tolerate very warm, humid conditions a majority of the time. With Northern Mediterranean species and Russian tortoises you kind of have to find a happy medium when it comes to maintaining the adults.

 

[Lori J]

The more room that you can give them either indoors or outdoors is always going to be beneficial to the tortoises well being. Regardless of species.

I also live in area in the U.S. that has long cold winters and short summers. Up until just two weeks ago we also had several feet of snow on the ground. Our actual summer is from early June through late August. Our May and September are usually mild enough that tortoises are out and active.

My Russian tortoises are outdoors 24/7 usually starting in early May through late October. Our average summer temperatures during the daytime are in the mid 70's (Fahrenheit) with night often dropping below 50 degrees. They have always done fine here.

While it is true that young, growing Russian tortoises do need more amibient air humidity and substrate moisture this is to prevent pyramided growth while developing. This is not completely true of adults. They are accustomed to a hot, dry environment but will seek a cooler, humid retreat when they need to. That is not to say that they should be kept hot and dry all the time. If they are you will rarely see them out and active and they will spend long periods of time resting, waiting out the hot dry spell. But they should also not be kept in constant damp conditions either. Some species are accustomed to and tolerate very warm, humid conditions a majority of the time. With Northern Mediterranean species and Russian tortoises you kind of have to find a happy medium when it comes to maintaining the adults.

thats great info. but so you use a heat source at night when they are outside??? or do your russians do fine in the night temps? i thought i have read that it cannot be lower than 70. i trust what you say..you seem like you know your stuff!

 

[Jessica]

I don't know anything about your fahrenheit-system But I have my russian outside 24/7 when it's +10 celcius outside (minimum!)...Is it like 50 fahrenheit?
Sometimes it takes up to june, and some year I let him outside on may. Some summers are really "late", and then I have him outside to october.

 

[GBtortoises]

No, I use no heat source outdoors whatsoever. If your temperatures are going to be consistently below 50 degrees at night and the daytime temperatures do not reach at least the upper 60's and sunny during the daytime then an additional daytime heat source should be considered. But if your nighttime temperatures are consistently in the mid 50's to low 60's and daytime temperatures reach the low 70's and higher there should be no need for additional heat.

Russian tortoises absolutely should have a 15-20 degree temperature difference from day to night. If kept too warm at night on a regular basis (which many people do) they will not only consume much more food than their bodies are designed to do over a longer period but as young they will also grow more rapidly than natural developing clear signs of accelerated growth. 70 degrees at night is much too warm for them to be kept at on a regular basis. Adults that are kept too warm all the time will often aestivate and not eat properly, if at all.

It benefits to do some research on where a species is from in the wild in order to provide what might be necessary to their healthy and well being in captivity.

 

[Lori J]

No, I use no heat source outdoors whatsoever. If your temperatures are going to be consistently below 50 degrees at night and the daytime temperatures do not reach at least the upper 60's and sunny during the daytime then an additional daytime heat source should be considered. But if your nighttime temperatures are consistently in the mid 50's to low 60's and daytime temperatures reach the low 70's and higher there should be no need for additional heat.

Russian tortoises absolutely should have a 15-20 degree temperature difference from day to night. If kept too warm at night on a regular basis (which many people do) they will not only consume much more food than their bodies are designed to do over a longer period but as young they will also grow more rapidly than natural developing clear signs of accelerated growth. 70 degrees at night is much too warm for them to be kept at on a regular basis. Adults that are kept too warm all the time will often aestivate and not eat properly, if at all.

It benefits to do some research on where a species is from in the wild in order to provide what might be necessary to their healthy and well being in captivity.

thank you so much for that information. i will return my "night" light tomorrow. I will be using an MVP lamp during the day. i think that is what they are called...the all in one light. I got a 100 watt. is that ok to use during the day? then at night it will be shut off with no heat lamp at all. my enclosure will be inside. i also live in ny...(binghamton). I do plan on having the Rt OUTSIDE in the summer.

 

[GBtortoises]

The MV lights are great as long as they and any light for basking is mounted close enough to provide adequate basking temperatures directly under them. Now I recall that we talked earlier! I live about an hour and half east of you.

 

[Lori J]

The MV lights are great as long as they and any light for basking is mounted close enough to provide adequate basking temperatures directly under them. Now I recall that we talked earlier! I live about an hour and half east of you.

YEP its me the one you taked to earlier! I have a clamp light...hope its warm enough under it. hopefully in a week i will be ready to get my RT! are you selling any at this time?

 

[GBtortoises]

Wal-Mart, Lowe's and Home Depot all sell inexpensive digital indoor/outdoor thermometers. Some may even have hygrometers built in too. That way you can mount the thermometer at one end and the cord at the other to always know the temperatures at both ends of the the enclosure. Some of the newer style unit don't have a cord but a seperate sending unit that is cordless. A hygrometer is beneficial to have in order to monitor ambient humidity within the enclosure. Most of the units I have are various brands and they all seem to work pretty well.

I only sell my own captive born offspring and have none right now. My tortoises are very much seasonal breeders because they are kept outdoors in the spring summer and fall and hibernated in the winter. I usually don't have offspring until late summer. You might want to put an ad in the "wanted" section on this site or check some other sites. If you're looking for hatchling you'll most likely have to get one from a breeder or a dealer online. If you're looking for an adult check Craigslist and pet shops. There was recently an ad for a male Russian on CL on the Syracuse page, I don't know if it's still there.