Enclosure size guidelines

[Menno]

Hi there!

In some countries there are rules for the minimum size of your tortoises' enclosure. I only know the rules for Sulcatas and Leopards, but it gives you an impression.
Beacause the measures are European values, I have them converted to inches and square feet.

Tortoise do need a lot of space, so the bigger the better. Remember that this are the minimum sizes for 1-2 animals.

Leopards:

Max carapace lenght 10cm (3.9").
Space required: 1 square meter. (10.76 square feet). Every extra animal:
+ 0.3 square meter. (3.23 square feet)

Max carapace lenght 10-20cm (3.9-7.9").
Space required: 1.5 square meter. (16.15 square feet). Every extra animal:
+ 0.5 square meter. (5.38 square feet)

Max carapace lenght: 20-35cm (7.9-11.8").
Space required: 3.5 square meter. (37.67 square feet). Every extra animal:
+ 1 square meter. (10.76 square feet)

Carapace bigger than 35cm (11.8")
Space required: 6 square meter. (64.59 square feet). Every extra animal:
+ 1.2 square meter. (12.92 square feet)

Sulcatas:

Max carapace lenght 10cm (3.9").
Space required: 1 square meter. (10.76 square feet). Every extra animal:
+ 0.3 square meter. (3.23 square feet)

Max carapace lenght 10-25cm (3.9-9.8").
Space required: 2,5 square meter. (26.91 square feet). Every extra animal:
+ 0.6 square meter. (6.46 square feet)

Max carapace lenght 25-40cm (9.8-15.7").
Space required: 4 square meter. (43.06 square feet). Every extra animal:
+ 1 square meter. (10.76 square feet)

Max carapace lenght 40-55cm (15.7-21.7")
Space required: 6 square meter. (64.59 square feet) Every extra animal:
+ 1.5 square meter. (16.15 square feet)

Carapace bigger than 55cm (21.7")
Space required: 10 square meter. (107.64 square feet) Every extra animal:
+ 3 square meter. (32.29 square feet)

 

[Jd3]

Enclosure size laws

Do you have a link to anywhere that says this is a law anywhere?

 

[Menno]

RE: Enclosure size laws

Do you have a link to anywhere that says this is a law anywhere?

I got this from a book. I don't know exactly in wich countries these rules are, but I know for sure they apply in Austria.

 

[Zamric]

RE: Enclosure size laws

Hmmmmmm.....

sounds like proper sizes!

 

[Jd3]

Enclosure size laws

I see that they are good recommendations but I cannot find anything that say they are LAW.

 

[Menno]

RE: Enclosure size laws

I see that they are good recommendations but I cannot find anything that say they are LAW.

This aren't the laws for America, but I just say that some countries do have laws for keeping tortoises. It gives you an idea of the space that these tortoises need.

 

[Jd3]

Enclosure size laws

I get what you are saying I'm just asking for a source that says it is more than a recommendation. I can't find anything on the Internet that says it is law.

 

[Menno]

RE: Enclosure size laws

So, what are your enclosures' sizes? My enclosure (for two sulcatas with carapace 10cm, 3.9") is 2.24 square meter (24.11 square feet ).

 

[Jd3]

Enclosure size laws

My question is what LAW regulates this. You've stated there was a law and I just can't find any place that actually regulates or enforces any sort of law regarding this. It would be great if they did but they don't. I'm not saying the minimums you've said are bad.

I'm saying here Isn't a law that regulates this. I understand there appears to be some translation or semantics difference in our conversation

All I'm asking for is a source of some sort of law for this like you've said there is.

I wish there was.

 

[mctlong]

Re: Enclosure size laws

We don't have an eqivilant law here in the US.

 

[Jd3]

Enclosure size laws

I can't find an equivalent law anywhere.

 

[Yvonne G]

RE: Enclosure size laws

I think you're reading too much into the statement, JD. Just take it to mean that it is a "recommendation" in some countries, and not an actual shoot 'em up law on the books.

It is good for everyone to have their own opinion about how they take care of their tortoises, but in order to keep this a friendly, family-oriented Forum, we like to keep the arguing off the Forum. It is quite ok to disagree, but please don't continue when the answer was that the OP didn't know.

I commend Menno (who lives in the Netherlands) for trying to get us to understand that tortoises need some space to thrive and has given us some parameters that he has found in his country. Thank you for sharing that with us Menno.

---

And in re-reading the original post, Menno stated that these were "rules." He never said it was a law. JD was the one who inferred it was a law.

O-oo-o-ps! I see that the subject title used the word "law." I have now changed it to "guidelines." I apologize to JD.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Re: Enclosure size laws

Am i reading these sizes correctly? My single 5" Russian is in a pen that is 120 sq ft. My 4" leopard is in a similar sized pen. I cant picture an adult sully in less than that!

 

[Menno]

RE: Enclosure size laws

Am i reading these sizes correctly? My single 5" Russian is in a pen that is 120 sq ft. My 4" leopard is in a similar sized pen. I cant picture an adult sully in less than that!

Note that this are the MINIMUM sizes.


And about the law discussion. I don't think it is important to know where are these rules from. I just wanted to share these information I read in a book, (Where stays that it are laws in Austria, however). It gives you an impression.

The reason you don't find it on the internet is that you're searching at the wrong language. It aren't English or American rules, so it contains no word English! If you really want to find it you have to search on 'SchildKröte Regeln Östenreich' or something.

But I'll save you that work, the book where I read it contains a very good sources list. The only problem is that that list is 13 pages long... But I'll do some research for you, and iIlet it now if I have found something!

=======

Thank you Yvonne for controlling this discussion!

 

[argus333]

ya wish they had it hear, I've seen some horror shows with people that just didn't have a clue.

 

[Jd3]

Am i reading these sizes correctly? My single 5" Russian is in a pen that is 120 sq ft. My 4" leopard is in a similar sized pen. I cant picture an adult sully in less than that!

Note that this are the MINIMUM sizes.


And about the law discussion. I don't think it is important to know where are these rules from. I just wanted to share these information I read in a book, (Where stays that it are laws in Austria, however). It gives you an impression.

The reason you don't find it on the internet is that you're searching at the wrong language. It aren't English or American rules, so it contains no word English! If you really want to find it you have to search on 'SchildKröte Regeln Östenreich' or something.

But I'll save you that work, the book where I read it contains a very good sources list. The only problem is that that list is 13 pages long... But I'll do some research for you, and iIlet it now if I have found something!

=======

Thank you Yvonne for controlling this discussion!

Nope that doesn't find anything either.

Google translates results for me from English to deutsch and back just fine.

Like I said this is semantics, but I do not think it is a LAW enforced by any government body. There is no national tortoise police coming to fine you for an undersized enclosure... Which is too bad, as perhaps that is what it would take for stores and owners to be educated about the pets they keep and sell.

 

[ulkal]

The Vienna Animal Welfare and Protection Law (free and weird sounding translation,sorry)
indeed states a minimum requirement for tortoise enclosures. Its on the homepage of their
Ministry for Health and seems to be an attachment to the Animal Welfare Law.
Germany's ministry of Nutrition, Agriculture and consumer protection has
published a "Report on the Husbandry of Reptiles" (awkward translation as well)
which gives guidelines for the care of different tortoise and turtle species, including enclosure sizes. It also
give minimum requirements for pet stores. Its not directly the law, but probably linked to the law for proper care.
If someone was prosecuted/reported because of animal neglect/abuse, they would probably use this.
I do not think they enforce it actively, except if someone reports. Had a pair of red sliders for
15 years as a kid there and no one ever came by with a tape measure

Thanks for sharing, I had no idea they were so specific.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

This is what I found.

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/Animal Welfare Act Tortoise Housing.pdf

 

[taytay3391]

http://www.idiotlaws.com/dumb_laws/iowa/
Silly LAWS of Iowa. Yet there are no "dancing" police.

Laws can be in existence without constant control

Very interesting to see that there are requirements for size. Thanks for the info!

 

[Tom]

I get it that these are minimums, but I can't fathom keeping and adult sulcata in a 10x10' enclosure.