Enclosure Status.. & Perfect Acrylic Lid?

[ashleym]

Alright, i'm being hopeful here. Hopefully all my reading has done me some good..

We are currently building our Sulcata an outdoor enclosure to last a very long time. Our goal is to make it as humid and warm as we need it to be (mostly humid until we feel he is an appropriate size to let off a little), but without it being fully built that is obviously unknown right now. Ideally, we would like it to be a full-time year round setup. It will be similar to a large, tall "tortoise table" set up, only with insulation and a closed top. Here's the status so far..



We will be making it double the height it is now to incorporate a shelf or two to hold some little water tubs (something I saw that Tom had put in his newest box to aid in humidity), live plants, and to also accommodate two lamps. One for the night time black light heat bulb and the other which is coming in the mail tomorrow. It is a 160 Watt Exo Terra Solar Glo (UVA + UVB + Heat). I'm already considering a ceramic heat emitter and/or an oil heater for winter since i'm unsure that we will be able to supply enough heat for then, but for now this should suffice.

The top lid is actually going completely across, but roughly 1/3 of it is just wood and the other 2/3 will be acrylic. Now, after doing so much reading on plastics and glass and the ability for UV rays to pass through them, I think I have finally found a solution. I noticed that Optix makes a 6' x 3' acrylic sheet (just slightly bigger than what we need to cut) that is NON UV Stabilized. This should be perfect! Right? I am aware however that it will wear a lot quicker than UV treated acrylic sheets, but I feel this would be best if we want to hold the warmth in on colder days and still allow him to get some natural rays. It isn't as thick as I want it to be (0.118") but I think it should still work, right?

After it is as tall as we want it to be, we will be putting in insulation and sealed plywood on the interior walls and floor, making sure all the crevices are covered and placing a weather strip around the top door to help hold in the heat. Under the box will be a layer of brick to keep it up off the ground. The outside will be painted.

I have been wondering if lining the whole interior of the box with acrylic would help hold in humidity, and essentially also protecting the wood even more. Has anyone done this before?

Any ideas, advice, etc? Thanks for reading!

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.. no comments? Really? :/

 

[sibi]

I would wait for.Tom to chime in because he's the master builder of enclosures. However, in my opinion, I think the acrylic isn't going to work as you think. For one, UV rays that's needed won't be able to penetrate it. And I have my reservations about holding heat. One important factor to consider is heat under the plastron. A pig blanket is best for.that. If heat isn't provided under the plastron, your tort will be cold on cold winter days. Btw, what state do you live in? How cold does it get during the winter? How old and how big is your tort?

 

[Masin]

Can you tell me more about these pig blankets?

I would wait for.Tom to chime in because he's the master builder of enclosures. However, in my opinion, I think the acrylic isn't going to work as you think. For one, UV rays that's needed won't be able to penetrate it. And I have my reservations about holding heat. One important factor to consider is heat under the plastron. A pig blanket is best for.that. If heat isn't provided under the plastron, your tort will be cold on cold winter days. Btw, what state do you live in? How cold does it get during the winter? How old and how big is your tort?

 

[ashleym]

I would wait for.Tom to chime in because he's the master builder of enclosures. However, in my opinion, I think the acrylic isn't going to work as you think. For one, UV rays that's needed won't be able to penetrate it. And I have my reservations about holding heat. One important factor to consider is heat under the plastron. A pig blanket is best for.that. If heat isn't provided under the plastron, your tort will be cold on cold winter days. Btw, what state do you live in? How cold does it get during the winter? How old and how big is your tort?

Aw, really? I was hoping that I finally found a decent lid that the rays could still penetrate through. He is still quite young, which is why I want to keep it as closed to a "closed chambers" style as much as possible, even during the warmer months for night time. He is only about 3-4 inches long. It actually gets VERY humid and warm here in South Carolina during the warmer months so it being closed won't be necessary very often through the warm humid days. I actually have a 4" x 5" heat mat made by Exo Terra laying around still in the box, but it says it can only be used for glass terrariums so I pretty much ruled that one out already.

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@ sibi - I was just reading on another thread that they didn't recommend the heating pads/pig blankets for the younger tortoises because sometimes they don't have enough common sense to get off of them when they get too hot. Someone suggested a seed germination pad that you can bury under the substrate. Any experience with those?

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Ah-ha! I did some more thread browsing and came across someone that uses a Hydrokable heating cable. They are made to be buried under substrate and are waterproof. I'm looking at some online now that also come with thermostats and temperature dials. I'm curious to see what Tom's opinion is, but i'm really considering this option.

 

[sibi]

Pig blankets should always have a thermostat connected to it. This way, if you set it for 80 degrees, it will not go above that temp. During winter months, it will get quite cold in SC. There's different sizes of blankets you can get. Tom uses Tane (I think that's how it's spelled), but there's others that are used here by some members. Google"pig blankets with thermostat" and you should get a good idea. Finally, let me tell you about those medzoo heat pads. They are dangerous for your tort, not only because it should be used under a tank, but it can become faulty very easily. I had one for my tank, and when I put my hand under the pad to check if it was heating, I got electrocuted. It wasn't too bad, but it stung a nerve for hours. Now, had it been my tort, I don't even want to think about it. Electricity can go through glass!. I wouldn't use any heating pad except the Tane I ordered for outdoor encourage.

 

[ashleym]

Pig blankets should always have a thermostat connected to it. This way, if you set it for 80 degrees, it will not go above that temp. During winter months, it will get quite cold in SC. There's different sizes of blankets you can get. Tom uses Tane (I think that's how it's spelled), but there's others that are used here by some members. Google"pig blankets with thermostat" and you should get a good idea. Finally, let me tell you about those medzoo heat pads. They are dangerous for your tort, not only because it should be used under a tank, but it can become faulty very easily. I had one for my tank, and when I put my hand under the pad to check if it was heating, I got electrocuted. It wasn't too bad, but it stung a nerve for hours. Now, had it been my tort, I don't even want to think about it. Electricity can go through glass!. I wouldn't use any heating pad except the Tane I ordered for outdoor encourage.

Are you talking about the Kane heating pads? They are red and come in variable sizes, smallest being 18" x 18". I'm wondering now if it would be best to get one of those, just obviously keeping it above the substrate. In conjunction with the MVB, I wonder if that would give off enough heat during the day. And then perhaps for night time I could get a CHE or two along with the Kane mat? I have not tried those before. I just use a black light bulb at night in his current, much smaller indoor enclosure.

I wonder why this particular Optix sheet feels the need to specify that it is non UV treated if it won't allow the rays to pass. Why else would they throw that info in there?

 

[knechtion53]

I just purchased a Kane pig blanket and the instructions specifically state they should not be used with any substrate under, above or near the unit. We secured the unit to the floor of the enclosure and made sure the cord was completely enclosed so the tortoise does not come in contact with it. This setup is fine for my adult but not sure it would be appropriate for a little one.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I want to make sure I understand correctly.
You want to build a humid, closed chamber to house a sulcata hatchling in while outside? Is this right?

That doesn't make much sense to me.

I'd think you would use the closed chamber for inside but a build normal enclosure for outside. Have you considered this? I'm curious to know why you don't think this would work for you.

Sent from my TFOapp

 

[ashleym]

I want to make sure I understand correctly.
You want to build a humid, closed chamber to house a sulcata hatchling in while outside? Is this right?

That doesn't make much sense to me.

I'd think you would use the closed chamber for inside but a build normal enclosure for outside. Have you considered this? I'm curious to know why you don't think this would work for you.

Sent from my TFOapp

Well, my theory is if I can make it work then why not? All i'm really asking for is advice on the best methods of heating & providing humidity for a closed chambers box that is conveniently located around an environment with variable temperatures. And when I say variable, I don't mean that one day it's freezing and the next is 90 degrees. I live in SC where we have cold winters and hot summers with awesome humidity (for him, anyway). Just because it hasn't been built before doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't work. He is indoors right now but I want to allow him to be in a bigger enclosure "closer to nature" that would allow the transition to outdoor access for him much easier. When I feel it is appropriate to cut down on all the excess humidity levels and feel he is safe enough to go in and out of his home on his own we will cut a hole in the side and fence in around the box. Make sense?

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I want to make sure I understand correctly.
You want to build a humid, closed chamber to house a sulcata hatchling in while outside? Is this right?

That doesn't make much sense to me.

I'd think you would use the closed chamber for inside but a build normal enclosure for outside. Have you considered this? I'm curious to know why you don't think this would work for you.

Sent from my TFOapp

Well, my theory is if I can make it work then why not? All i'm really asking for is advice on the best methods of heating & providing humidity for a closed chambers box that is conveniently located around an environment with variable temperatures. And when I say variable, I don't mean that one day it's freezing and the next is 90 degrees. I live in SC where we have cold winters and hot summers with awesome humidity (for him, anyway). Just because it hasn't been built before doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't work. He is indoors right now but I want to allow him to be in a bigger enclosure "closer to nature" that would allow the transition to outdoor access for him much easier. When I feel it is appropriate to cut down on all the excess humidity levels and feel he is safe enough to go in and out of his home on his own we will cut a hole in the side and fence in around the box. Make sense?

hmm. ok.
I like the "If you don't know, ask" saying. In text/email/forum you can't understand tone or body language used when communicating so sometimes things are taken out of context. I'll be blunt in saying that I literally was just asking to try and understand and have no "attitude" in doing so

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Since you have a humid summer, you could just have a heavily planted pen with no lid and your sully will still benefit from the naturally humid environment. During colder weather a green house type of enclosure could work well.

I can't share advice on your specific quesitons "best method of heating & providing humidity for an outdoor closed chamber" because my chambers are indoors with less fluctuating temperatures.
I can share that I wouldn't trust any lid to provide adequate UV rays for my tortoises. UV rays bounce and would bounce the acrylic lid. I suggest you still offer a few hours a week in a lid-less enclosure to meet the UV requirements.

Give it a try and let us know how it works out.

 

[ashleym]

Since you have a humid summer, you could just have a heavily planted pen with no lid and your sully will still benefit from the naturally humid environment. During colder weather a green house type of enclosure could work well.

I can't share advice on your specific quesitons "best method of heating & providing humidity for an outdoor closed chamber" because my chambers are indoors with less fluctuating temperatures.
I can share that I wouldn't trust any lid to provide adequate UV rays for my tortoises. UV rays bounce and would bounce the acrylic lid. I suggest you still offer a few hours a week in a lid-less enclosure to meet the UV requirements.

Give it a try and let us know how it works out.

It definitely is confusing to understand the whole concept of non UV treated acrylic. However, even if if it doesn't seem to work the way i'd like it to I will still have the MVB bulb in there for heat, UVB & UVA rays. He gets out in the yard every day but of course in the horrible winters we have, that will be a no go. I think it would just also be nice to be able to see him without opening the lid and disturbing him, even if he doesn't benefit much from the clear portion of lid. I think for summer-ish months when it is really warm and humid, that will be the goal. I'll just leave the lid wide open during the day. Essentially it may help save on summer time heating costs also. I have seen some cold frame greenhouse style enclosures for tortoises outside before on other websites. I was initially going to try to go with that method being that it is enclosed the way that i'd like and it would be able to hold plant life. But I just couldn't find the right one that I wanted, so figured i'd test this out instead. I think it's a pretty cool idea, and seems very simple actually. We'll just need to perfect it for winter first. I think i'm back on the Hydrokable route again. Seems to be too much controversy about whether or not a pig heating mat can go right on top of substrate or not, as i've seen throughout other threads.

 

[kanalomele]

One potential problem that I could see to your plan is creating an opportunity for a damp(humid) tort out into a cold environment. A sulcata that is kept in an area with freezing rain or snow is bound to get cold. Even if it just when it is going outside. But you are suggesting having this humid chamber outside. I understand that you are very concerned with keeping the interior of the hide warm. But having him humid and able to go outside would present a potential hazard. If you want to do this you will need the ability to lock the tort into his hot humid hide in order to avoid this. But that will not allow him to regulate his temperature unless the hide enclosure is very big. Hmm... I may have to think about this..

 

[AustinASU]

If your going to use acrylic, local hardware store acrylic isn't going to cut it, you'll have to buy Cast Acrylic

 

[ashleym]

One potential problem that I could see to your plan is creating an opportunity for a damp(humid) tort out into a cold environment. A sulcata that is kept in an area with freezing rain or snow is bound to get cold. Even if it just when it is going outside. But you are suggesting having this humid chamber outside. I understand that you are very concerned with keeping the interior of the hide warm. But having him humid and able to go outside would present a potential hazard. If you want to do this you will need the ability to lock the tort into his hot humid hide in order to avoid this. But that will not allow him to regulate his temperature unless the hide enclosure is very big. Hmm... I may have to think about this..

During the hot and humid months the lid will be open for the weather that he could benefit from to come in. When it gets colder, it will literally be closed off to all other elements (except light). I'm not going to put a hole in the side and a surrounding fence for him to come in and out on his own until he is much bigger and high humidity isn't such a big deal anymore. Essentially it will be like a 2-in-1 small building. Closed chamber style while he is young except with an open lid during the hot and humid times. And then it will later serve as a huge hide to walk in and out of as he pleases when he gets older and can better maintain himself. It measures roughly 41" by 41". Haven't installed the insulation yet so i'm estimating on that. I plan on having the majority of the heat supply on one side of the box so that he can "cool down" if necessary on the other side.

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If your going to use acrylic, local hardware store acrylic isn't going to cut it, you'll have to buy Cast Acrylic

Thank you for this! I had never heard of cast acrylic. Looking into it now. I'm glad I hadn't purchased the other yet. Do you have any suggestions on the thickness of it?

 

[AustinASU]

3/8 is what I like, as long as you have a brace in the middle it won't sag

 

[ashleym]

3/8 is what I like, as long as you have a brace in the middle it won't sag

Do you think that 1/8 would suffice? For the size i'm wanting in 3/8, it would be a great deal of money. Which would be okay in the long run, i'm just running on limited funds to be done in such a short amount of time.