Enough soaking for a adult Russian?

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I have been soaking my adult Russian tortoise roughly once a week since I got him in February. Prior to getting him I saw some conflicting info on whether you even need to soak adult tortoises if they have a water dish. Some say that soaking is harmful, because it forces the tortoise to empty it's bowel. I use luke warm water up to his shell and then pour some on him. I soak him in a plastic tub about four times his size. He also has a terracotta saucer in his enclosure he can soak in anytime. AFAIK he has never been soaked before. He is probably wild caught, but I don't know that for sure either.

Only on this forum I have started see recommendations on how long to soak your tortoise. Some even say 30 to 45 minutes. Some say until the tortoise poops. He has always seemed stressed when soaking and being dried with a towel. He is always trying to escape the tub, only stopping when I pour some water on him. He has pooped while soaking only twice while I had him, it could be because have been soaking him for less than ten minutes. Today I soaked him for 20 minutes, even though it was hard to watch him struggle to escape the tub.

So what do you recommend, how long/often should I soak my tortoise? Am I soaking him enough? Is there a way to make it less stressful for him?

 

[wellington]

The info that it's harmful is not from this forum but from a source that doesn't know what they are talking about.
And adult only needs it about once a month or so. The the struggles is good exercise and does not hurt him but is good for him.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

How long should

The info that it's harmful is not from this forum but from a source that doesn't know what they are talking about.
And adult only needs it about once a month or so. The the struggles is good exercise and does not hurt him but is good for him.

How long should I soak him? Is there a minute amount, or do I wait for him to poop?

 

[Tom]

I have been soaking my adult Russian tortoise roughly once a week since I got him in February. Prior to getting him I saw some conflicting info on whether you even need to soak adult tortoises if they have a water dish. Some say that soaking is harmful, because it forces the tortoise to empty it's bowel. I use luke warm water up to his shell and then pour some on him. I soak him in a plastic tub about four times his size. He also has a terracotta saucer in his enclosure he can soak in anytime. AFAIK he has never been soaked before. He is probably wild caught, but I don't know that for sure either.

Only on this forum I have started see recommendations on how long to soak your tortoise. Some even say 30 to 45 minutes. Some say until the tortoise poops. He has always seemed stressed when soaking and being dried with a towel. He is always trying to escape the tub, only stopping when I pour some water on him. He has pooped while soaking only twice while I had him, it could be because have been soaking him for less than ten minutes. Today I soaked him for 20 minutes, even though it was hard to watch him struggle to escape the tub.

So what do you recommend, how long/often should I soak my tortoise? Am I soaking him enough? Is there a way to make it less stressful for him?

There is all sorts of wrong info out there. The "soaking is bad for them" myth is an easy one to disprove. All by myself I have started over 1000 hatchlings of several species and I soak all of them every single day. I do this to keep them well hydrated but it has an added beneficial side effect: When you have two dozen or more in one large enclosure, this helps to empty their bowels and keep the enclosure much cleaner for longer. If this was bad for them, what would my results be from this practice? My babies all thrive, grow up to be beautiful healthy adults, and then reproduce and make more babies for me to soak daily. 100% of my babies thrive. Breeders who subscribe to that old wrong info frequently make remarks like, "Some of them just aren't meant to survive..." I want to scram at them "NONE OF THEM ARE MEANT TO SURVIVE WITHOUT WATER!!!"

In addition to all the eggs that I have hatched, thousands more have been hatched or purchased by people who soak them daily, and all of them grow and thrive. ALL of them.

Russians are prone to bladder stones. I don't think Wellington's recommendation of once a month soaking for adults is enough. I recommend at least 30-40 minutes twice a week. Here's the thing: Soaking more than they need does no harm at all. Not soaking enough can kill them. You could soak an adult Russian two hours every day, and it would do absolutely no harm. I know a guy who leaves little babies outside in a kiddie pool with a little water for six hours a day and it does no harm. In fact he had smooth shells and one of the fastest growth rates I've ever seen. If they aren't healthy and the food is being purged from their system, why do they grow so well? I'm not recommending 6 hours of soaking a day. I'm simply saying that there are many examples out tin the world that demonstrate that lots of soaking does no harm, and is beneficial.

If someone has a Russian that is comfortable with its water bowl, and it drinks copious quantities all on its own on a regular basis, then not soaking won't harm that tortoise. For me personally, I don't have time to stare at every single one of my tortoises 100% of each and every day to make sure the tortoise took a nice long drink that day. Even if I did have time, they are on opposite sides of my ranch, so I couldn't watch them all at once. The easy solution and the safe way to go is to soak them early and often. All of my enclosures have multiple water bowls sunk into the ground, but I still soak them anyway. They almost always empty their bowels in the soak water, and yet they continue to grow and thrive.

Next, think about how far your tortoise would walk if you took it to an open field and set it down. It would be miles away within a few days. Now think about how far your Russian walks in your tiny enclosure? This is not good. Tortoises need to walk long distances to remain healthy. Even giant outdoor enclosures don't afford them as much room as a wild specimen would have. When they clamber up the sides trying to get out of the soak water, some of us call this "the tortoise treadmill". All that exercise is good for them. You are not hurting your tortoise. You are stimulating and exercising it. Let him clamber. I go 30-40 minutes minimum, but some days I go an hour or more. Just keep the water warm the whole time.

P.S. I have never dried a tortoise after the soak. I rinse them and put them back in their enclosure wet. The water on the growth seams helps prevent pyramiding.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

There is all sorts of wrong info out there. The "soaking is bad for them" myth is an easy one to disprove. All by myself I have started over 1000 hatchlings of several species and I soak all of them every single day. I do this to keep them well hydrated but it has an added beneficial side effect: When you have two dozen or more in one large enclosure, this helps to empty their bowels and keep the enclosure much cleaner for longer. If this was bad for them, what would my results be from this practice? My babies all thrive, grow up to be beautiful healthy adults, and then reproduce and make more babies for me to soak daily. 100% of my babies thrive. Breeders who subscribe to that old wrong info frequently make remarks like, "Some of them just aren't meant to survive..." I want to scram at them "NONE OF THEM ARE MEANT TO SURVIVE WITHOUT WATER!!!"

In addition to all the eggs that I have hatched, thousands more have been hatched or purchased by people who soak them daily, and all of them grow and thrive. ALL of them.

Russians are prone to bladder stones. I don't think Wellington's recommendation of once a month soaking for adults is enough. I recommend at least 30-40 minutes twice a week. Here's the thing: Soaking more than they need does no harm at all. Not soaking enough can kill them. You could soak an adult Russian two hours every day, and it would do absolutely no harm. I know a guy who leaves little babies outside in a kiddie pool with a little water for six hours a day and it does no harm. In fact he had smooth shells and one of the fastest growth rates I've ever seen. If they aren't healthy and the food is being purged from their system, why do they grow so well? I'm not recommending 6 hours of soaking a day. I'm simply saying that there are many examples out tin the world that demonstrate that lots of soaking does no harm, and is beneficial.

If someone has a Russian that is comfortable with its water bowl, and it drinks copious quantities all on its own on a regular basis, then not soaking won't harm that tortoise. For me personally, I don't have time to stare at every single one of my tortoises 100% of each and every day to make sure the tortoise took a nice long drink that day. Even if I did have time, they are on opposite sides of my ranch, so I couldn't watch them all at once. The easy solution and the safe way to go is to soak them early and often. All of my enclosures have multiple water bowls sunk into the ground, but I still soak them anyway. They almost always empty their bowels in the soak water, and yet they continue to grow and thrive.

Next, think about how far your tortoise would walk if you took it to an open field and set it down. It would be miles away within a few days. Now think about how far your Russian walks in your tiny enclosure? This is not good. Tortoises need to walk long distances to remain healthy. Even giant outdoor enclosures don't afford them as much room as a wild specimen would have. When they clamber up the sides trying to get out of the soak water, some of us call this "the tortoise treadmill". All that exercise is good for them. You are not hurting your tortoise. You are stimulating and exercising it. Let him clamber. I go 30-40 minutes minimum, but some days I go an hour or more. Just keep the water warm the whole time.

P.S. I have never dried a tortoise after the soak. I rinse them and put them back in their enclosure wet. The water on the growth seams helps prevent pyramiding.

I have seen some conflicting info here on how often and long to soak, especially adults. Since the threads were quite old and I was not convinced I decided to make a new one.

As far as the water dish I don't catch him drinking everyday, but he always drinks a few sips in the beginning of his soak. Sometimes he will rub his face once or twice before starting his escape attempts.

Maybe I will start making his soaks longer and then start striving for twice a week, since there seems to be no harm. I also thought that he is getting some exercise, I was just worried that it would be too much stress (the number one killer of reptiles, as the saying goes... Not sure if that is right though with all the bad care around). Seeing your comments made me less worried about stress.

I dry him, just because I am afraid that he would get too cold with the water evaporating of his skin especially if he goes to the cool side of his enclosure, but I would be more than ready to skip it if it is not necessary. He really hates the drying part scratching and kicking, even thous he otherwise is fine with me handling him-

 

[wellington]

I have seen some conflicting info here on how often and long to soak, especially adults. Since the threads were quite old and I was not convinced I decided to make a new one.

As far as the water dish I don't catch him drinking everyday, but he always drinks a few sips in the beginning of his soak. Sometimes he will rub his face once or twice before starting his escape attempts.

Maybe I will start making his soaks longer and then start striving for twice a week, since there seems to be no harm. I also thought that he is getting some exercise, I was just worried that it would be too much stress (the number one killer of reptiles, as the saying goes... Not sure if that is right though with all the bad care around). Seeing your comments made me less worried about stress.

I dry him, just because I am afraid that he would get too cold with the water evaporating of his skin especially if he goes to the cool side of his enclosure, but I would be more than ready to skip it if it is not necessary. He really hates the drying part scratching and kicking, even thous he otherwise is fine with me handling him-

Adult of any species has always been about once a month. Some go over board and that's fine too. Once a month is also fine, seeing there are many members that do once a month and their tortoises also are doing fine and thriving. So either way, or if you miss a time and it only equals once a month, it's all fine as long as you do at least the once. Most people aren't breeders, but pet owners, and don't have as many torts as Tom, so we know whether or not our torts are using their water dish.

 

[Tom]

Adult of any species has always been about once a month. Some go over board and that's fine too. Once a month is also fine, seeing there are many members that do once a month and their tortoises also are doing fine and thriving. So either way, or if you miss a time and it only equals once a month, it's all fine as long as you do at least the once. Most people aren't breeders, but pet owners, and don't have as many torts as Tom, so we know whether or not our torts are using their water dish.

No, it is not also fine to go once a month. I see a lot cases of bladder stones in people's tortoises that don't soak them often enough. Because some of them, like yours, survive on once a month does not make it "fine". It makes it survivable sometimes. If you only want to soak once a month, that is up to you. If your tortoise survives that way, that is great. That doesn't make it something to recommend to others. This is no different than the people who house them on sand and then proclaim their tortoise is fine, and that sand is a good substrate because their tortoise is still alive. Their tortoise still being alive doesn't mean other tortoises aren't dying from sand impaction. Your tortoise still being alive doesn't mean that recommending soaks once a month is a good way to go, or that twice a week "overboard". Some of the people reading your recommendation have those ramped pet store bowls, or some other bowl that isn't suitable for tortoises and their torts might not be drinking as much as yours. My recommendation of twice a week will keep those tortoises alive and well. Your recommendation might not.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Adult of any species has always been about once a month. Some go over board and that's fine too. Once a month is also fine, seeing there are many members that do once a month and their tortoises also are doing fine and thriving. So either way, or if you miss a time and it only equals once a month, it's all fine as long as you do at least the once. Most people aren't breeders, but pet owners, and don't have as many torts as Tom, so we know whether or not our torts are using their water dish.

Would you say red foot’s are the exception? Because going back before I met the red foot my moms partner owns, she was getting soaked about once a month, once I met her and started doing some research, most people were recommending a soak at the beginning and end of the week, so I suggested we give it a go, with that her skin has become so much brighter and softer over time! She just looks so much more hydrated and healthy overall.
Would you say it differs for other species of adults torts? Like the Russians for example, especially when they don’t have such high humidity requirements? I’m always curious to learn new things about the care of other species

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

No, it is not also fine to go once a month. I see a lot cases of bladder stones in people's tortoises that don't soak them often enough. Because some of them, like yours, survive on once a month does not make it "fine". It makes it survivable sometimes. If you only want to soak once a month, that is up to you. If your tortoise survives that way, that is great. That doesn't make it something to recommend to others. This is no different than the people who house them on sand and then proclaim their tortoise is fine, and that sand is a good substrate because their tortoise is still alive. Their tortoise still being alive doesn't mean other tortoises aren't dying from sand impaction. Your tortoise still being alive doesn't mean that recommending soaks once a month is a good way to go, or that twice a week "overboard". Some of the people reading your recommendation have those ramped pet store bowls, or some other bowl that isn't suitable for tortoises and their torts might not be drinking as much as yours. My recommendation of twice a week will keep those tortoises alive and well. Your recommendation might not.

Read your reply after responding to wellington, it’s interesting to see two very different viewpoints from you guys!
My gut is inclined to agree that once a month doesn’t sound quite enough for any type of tort, with the exercise and hydration it gives, it just seems to do them too good to limit it to that, but I’m definitely intrigued by both sides here

 

[Tom]

Read your reply after responding to wellington, it’s interesting to see two very different viewpoints from you guys!
My gut is inclined to agree that once a month doesn’t sound quite enough for any type of tort, with the exercise and hydration it gives, it just seems to do them too good to limit it to that, but I’m definitely intrigued by both sides here

Simplified:
1. Once a month is enough to keep at least some tortoises alive some of the time.
2. Once a month is not enough to keep some tortoises alive and healthy in some circumstances.
3. Twice a week will keep just about any tortoise well hydrated in just about any circumstance. If a tortoise is in some circumstance that is so extreme that twice a week isn't enough, then the circumstance needs to be adjusted.
4. Soaking more often than is minimally needed does no harm. Soaking hours a day every single day is not necessary, but will also do no harm.
5. Soaking less often than is needed is harmful.

How can anyone be sure that their tortoise is drinking enough on its own 100% of the time all year long? You can't. People who don't soak at all, or don't soak enough sometimes run into problems. People that soak early and often, do not run into those problems.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Simplified:
1. Once a month is enough to keep at least some tortoises alive some of the time.
2. Once a month is not enough to keep some tortoises alive and healthy in some circumstances.
3. Twice a week will keep just about any tortoise well hydrated in just about any circumstance. If a tortoise is in some circumstance that is so extreme that twice a week isn't enough, then the circumstance needs to be adjusted.
4. Soaking more often than is minimally needed does no harm. Soaking hours a day every single day is not necessary, but will also do no harm.
5. Soaking less often than is needed is harmful.

How can anyone be sure that their tortoise is drinking enough on its own 100% of the time all year long? You can't. People who don't soak at all, or don't soak enough sometimes run into problems. People that soak early and often, do not run into those problems.

Yeah that does all make sense, think I’d lean in favour of soaks each week for torts of all kinds based on that perspective

 

[wellington]

Would you say red foot’s are the exception? Because going back before I met the red foot my moms partner owns, she was getting soaked about once a month, once I met her and started doing some research, most people were recommending a soak at the beginning and end of the week, so I suggested we give it a go, with that her skin has become so much brighter and softer over time! She just looks so much more hydrated and healthy overall.
Would you say it differs for other species of adults torts? Like the Russians for example, especially when they don’t have such high humidity requirements? I’m always curious to learn new things about the care of other species

All of it depends. What care they have, humidity they are getting, where they live, state and indoor outdoor. Do they use their water dish or not? Do you know if they use it? RF are more prone to shell rot and fungus, so more care should be given to that, which too much soaking can help bring this on. No one way is right for every tort in every location. However, we can't right a book for every response, we'd be here forever lol, so at least once a month is not going to hurt an adult tortoise and more often also will not hurt them.
My leopards soak themselves every day. My Russian does not. I barely soak my leopards and I place my Russian in his soak about once or twice a month.
They all are very healthy and act very normal as far as a naked eye can tell. They have never been sick or had any kind of problem.
Do what works for you as long as it fits within what needs to be.
Some like to over do things in my opinion some do not.

 

[wellington]

Yeah that does all make sense, think I’d lean in favour of soaks each week for torts of all kinds based on that perspective

I bet if you had a large sulcata you'd rethink that.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I bet if you had a large sulcata you'd rethink that.

lol you’re probably right when it comes to those giants
I just imagined people get huge sturdy tubs for their soaks to make it easier but I know nothing when it comes to those guys full grown

 

[wellington]

Simplified:
1. Once a month is enough to keep at least some tortoises alive some of the time.
2. Once a month is not enough to keep some tortoises alive and healthy in some circumstances.
3. Twice a week will keep just about any tortoise well hydrated in just about any circumstance. If a tortoise is in some circumstance that is so extreme that twice a week isn't enough, then the circumstance needs to be adjusted.
4. Soaking more often than is minimally needed does no harm. Soaking hours a day every single day is not necessary, but will also do no harm.
5. Soaking less often than is needed is harmful.

How can anyone be sure that their tortoise is drinking enough on its own 100% of the time all year long? You can't. People who don't soak at all, or don't soak enough sometimes run into problems. People that soak early and often, do not run into those problems.

Yes you can know if tortoises are drinking and or soaking enough. My leopards soak every day on their own and yes, I see them every day. Well except the days I have to be in Michigan but that's 3-4 days tops a month.
People that have one or two pet tortoises likely pay much more attention to their tort and what it's doing than those with lots of tortoises both large and small. No, you can't possibly know if all your torts are drinking or self soaking. Those with a lot less, like me, can.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

All of it depends. What care they have, humidity they are getting, where they live, state and indoor outdoor. Do they use their water dish or not? Do you know if they use it? RF are more prone to shell rot and fungus, so more care should be given to that, which too much soaking can help bring this on. No one way is right for every tort in every location. However, we can't right a book for every response, we'd be here forever lol, so at least once a month is not going to hurt an adult tortoise and more often also will not hurt them.
My leopards soak themselves every day. My Russian does not. I barely soak my leopards and I place my Russian in his soak about once or twice a month.
They all are very healthy and act very normal as far as a naked eye can tell. They have never been sick or had any kind of problem.
Do what works for you as long as it fits within what needs to be.
Some like to over do things in my opinion some do not.

I was under the impression shell rot/fungus was brought on by sitting for prolonged periods in dirty water, or sat on constantly wet/dirty substrate, I couldn’t imagine even a soak every day in fresh water would cause them to be more prone to shell rot, but maybe I’m wrong. I do think the potential for them to oversoak is there perhaps, say if they’re sat in the water dish all day or sleep in it constantly, but I would then presume maybe temps are a bit off or something else.. again I could be wrong.
We personally see her take drinks of waterone of the dishes has large stones to discourage constant self soaks, just so we can manually do it ourselves for her, to monitor it better for peace of mind tbh, she does have a terracotta saucer to go in if she wishes though lol.
Ultimately I think as long as they can completely dry off, and the top layer of substrate dries, it’s probably all good

I guess it’s all about what’s working best for tort and owner like you say

 

[wellington]

I was under the impression shell rot/fungus was brought on by sitting for prolonged periods in dirty water, or sat on constantly wet/dirty substrate, I couldn’t imagine even a soak every day in fresh water would cause them to be more prone to shell rot, but maybe I’m wrong. I do think the potential for them to oversoak is there perhaps, say if they’re sat in the water dish all day or sleep in it constantly, but I would then presume maybe temps are a bit off or something else.. again I could be wrong.
We personally see her take drinks of waterone of the dishes has large stones to discourage constant self soaks, just so we can manually do it ourselves for her, to monitor it better for peace of mind tbh, she does have a terracotta saucer to go in if she wishes though lol.
Ultimately I think as long as they can completely dry off, and the top layer of substrate dries, it’s probably all good

I guess it’s all about what’s working best for tort and owner like you say

Constantly wet will cause rot/fungus. Yes, more likely wet substrate will cause it more than soaking, but over soaking is constantly giving a high humidity tortoise, yet more time being wet. Of course it all depends on enclosure, humidity in enclosure, wet it dry top layer substrate, individual tort, owner, location, etc
The best thing is to start them out as a hatchling the right way, and as they grow, learn your tort. Then do what best suits you and more so the tort within the proper way of doing things.
Used to be recommended to soak babies 2 to 3 times a day. Now that has changed to mainly one time, but more is not harmful. Adults used to get once a month, now some has changed it. Some like to over do things others don't.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I was under the impression shell rot/fungus was brought on by sitting for prolonged periods in dirty water, or sat on constantly wet/dirty substrate, I couldn’t imagine even a soak every day in fresh water would cause them to be more prone to shell rot, but maybe I’m wrong. I do think the potential for them to oversoak is there perhaps, say if they’re sat in the water dish all day or sleep in it constantly, but I would then presume maybe temps are a bit off or something else.. again I could be wrong.
We personally see her take drinks of waterone of the dishes has large stones to discourage constant self soaks, just so we can manually do it ourselves for her, to monitor it better for peace of mind tbh, she does have a terracotta saucer to go in if she wishes though lol.
Ultimately I think as long as they can completely dry off, and the top layer of substrate dries, it’s probably all good

I guess it’s all about what’s working best for tort and owner like you say

I have also been under the impression, that if you soak in clean water and then afterwards you dry your tortoise/the shell dries under the heat lamp shell rot wouldn't be a problem. It is hard to believe that done right soaking would be the only cause of shell rot...

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Constantly wet will cause rot/fungus. Yes, more likely wet substrate will cause it more than soaking, but over soaking is constantly giving a high humidity tortoise, yet more time being wet. Of course it all depends on enclosure, humidity in enclosure, wet it dry top layer substrate, individual tort, owner, location, etc
The best thing is to start them out as a hatchling the right way, and as they grow, learn your tort. Then do what best suits you and more so the tort within the proper way of doing things.
Used to be recommended to soak babies 2 to 3 times a day. Now that has changed to mainly one time, but more is not harmful. Adults used to get once a month, now some has changed it. Some like to over do things others don't.

I don't see anything wrong with the over doing (at least in the soaking case) as long as you have the time to do so

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I have also been under the impression, that if you soak in clean water and then afterwards you dry your tortoise/the shell dries under the heat lamp shell rot wouldn't be a problem. It is hard to believe that done right soaking would be the only cause of shell rot...

Shell rot as bacterial/fungal infection of top carapace is rare. Fungal infection of plastron is more common, but in red/yellowfooted tortoises. Testudos and Sulcatas, for example, extremely rare get it (haven't seen such cases on TFO yet).

I have no medical background and it's tough for me to understand scientific papers and articles in vet journals (which have more latin than english words), however I see, that fungal infections are opportunistic and infestation often comes from natural soils and substrates promoting mold growth (like food leftovers or feces). That leads me to an assumption that clean water has nothing to do with plastron fungus. To the opposite, I've seen a redfoot here who has been kept at nights without substrate, in a tray with clean water - he had absolutely clean beautiful plastron with no signs of fungus. And with some rare tortoise species, clean water tray was the only way to raise healthy hatchlings.