Environmental groups want to ban commercial hunting of snapping and softshell turtles in Missouri

[Cowboy_Ken]

Environmental groups want to ban commercial hunting of snapping and softshell turtles in Missouri
By Kristen Taketa St. Louis Post-Dispatch Aug 24, 2016

Two environmental groups want Missouri to ban commercial hunting of snapping and softshell turtles, which they say is crippling the reptiles' habitats and taking a toll on the turtle population.
Commercial hunting of the two kinds of turtles exacerbates water pollution, habitat destruction, road mortality and incidental take from fishery devices, according to a letter penned to the Missouri Department of Conservation by the Center for Biological Diversity, a national organization based in Tucson, and St. Louis-based Great Rivers Environmental Law Center.
A 2014 research report about the common snapping and softshell turtles, the only kinds of turtles that Missouri considers to be game, found that "even low annual harvest rates may have detrimental effects on the long-term sustainability of turtle populations at localized scales."
“Unregulated turtle traders are mining Missouri rivers in a frenzy that’s reminiscent of the gold rush,” said Collette Adkins, a biologist and senior attorney at the Center for Biological Diversity. “Commercial trapping is devastating to turtle populations that are already suffering from a lot of other threats, like habitat loss, water pollution and getting hit by cars.”
A Missouri Department of Conservation document called the turtles "economically important" and said they are "highly valued as a human food source." The turtles are harvested and exported abroad for food, medicinal purposes and to serve as pets.
Turtles are good for the environment because they help keep balance in an ecosystem's food web structure by feeding on water plants, dead animals, snails, aquatic insects and crayfish, the letter said.

 

[wellington]

And they should. Hope it stops.

 

[BloodbucketXXL]

And they should. Hope it stops.

I tend to agree. Granted, I don't do population studies and I haven't looked over the numbers, but my layman's impression was that turtles in general just aren't suitable to commercial harvesting. It takes too long for them to reach reproductive maturity, and juvenile mortality is so high, that it just isn't sustainable in the long term. These populations tend to depend on the very few individuals that live long enough to consistently and continually reproduce, but those are the exact same individuals that get targeted for harvesting. How the heck is that supposed to work? They're selectively targeting the exact same individuals that are keeping the population going.

Now, if someone wanted to FARM turtles and use only farm-raised turtles to supply the demand for turtle meat, I wouldn't have any inherent objections to that. But i suspect that one of the reasons why people don't do that is because it's not worth it. As in, it takes so long to farm a turtle to harvesting size that the amount of money obtained by selling the meat isn't worth the amount of time and money spent getting turtles to that size. And if that's the case, then that would be a clear indication that the species just isn't suitable for those kinds of commercial purposes.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

1) How the heck is this supposed to work? They're selectively targeting the exact same individuals that are keeping the population going.
2) Now, if someone wanted to FARM turtles and use only farm-raised turtles to supply the demand for turtle meat, I wouldn't have any inherent objections to that.

My point of view for these two,(2) very different POV's would be and is as follows;
#1) I'm not so sure long term planning is of any concern to those supplementing their income or simply making a living harvesting wild caught turtles for a living at all. Otherwise they'd be working on the skills needed to respond with, "Now would you'ins be wanting any fries to go with this here burger?" But again, that would involve thinkin and a plannin fer that thar future thangy!
#2) Sorta reminds me of the, U.S. Humane Society (?) getting involved with South Korea and the dog farmers raising dogs for market as a meat item for humans. Americans purchased all the dogs and payed to have them flown overseas to the states here for new future homes as family pets. Please forgive my inaccurate information regarding the country of origin and the U.S Organization that facilitated putting the "rescue" together while we currently have many home grown dogs waiting to be adopted by a new loving family,(insert sarcasm here). I won't knowingly eat farmed fish, I've got my standards. I think turtle farms for food would suffer the same fate as the market dogs did.
I'm hoping all of this has made some sense. If clarity is needed, ask and I'll try to clear it up come sunrise. If someone gets what I'm saying and can respond to any questions before me, that would be great as well.

 

[mctlong]

I have no problem with the concept of hunting turtles to supply the food market. However, if the 2014 report they cited is accurate, then the turtle hunting should be regulated to ensure that the animals are not hunted to extinction. Requiring permits that limit the number of turtles caught would be a good first step, if its not already being done. Steep fines would also be needed for folks hunting without a permit to ensure compliance.

 

[BloodbucketXXL]

My point of view for these two,(2) very different POV's would be and is as follows;
#1) I'm not so sure long term planning is of any concern to those supplementing their income or simply making a living harvesting wild caught turtles for a living at all. Otherwise they'd be working on the skills needed to respond with, "Now would you'ins be wanting any fries to go with this here burger?" But again, that would involve thinkin and a plannin fer that thar future thangy!
#2) Sorta reminds me of the, U.S. Humane Society (?) getting involved with South Korea and the dog farmers raising dogs for market as a meat item for humans. Americans purchased all the dogs and payed to have them flown overseas to the states here for new future homes as family pets. Please forgive my inaccurate information regarding the country of origin and the U.S Organization that facilitated putting the "rescue" together while we currently have many home grown dogs waiting to be adopted by a new loving family,(insert sarcasm here). I won't knowingly eat farmed fish, I've got my standards. I think turtle farms for food would suffer the same fate as the market dogs did.
I'm hoping all of this has made some sense. If clarity is needed, ask and I'll try to clear it up come sunrise. If someone gets what I'm saying and can respond to any questions before me, that would be great as well.

As to your first point, that's sort of what I was getting at. That kind of commercial harvesting isn't really sustainable and it's short-sighted. I know that the people doing it probably AREN'T really doing any long term planning to make sure that it's done in an environmentally sound way, and that's why I'm all for banning the practice through legislation.

As to your second point, I feel like what would happen if anyone operated a turtle farm (for food) is probably moot. As far as I'm aware, the market for turtle meat comes mostly from wild caught turtles. I'm sure that more people would be raising turtles for food if there was money in it, but if that is indeed not happening that much, then that sort of tells me that there isn't money in it. If there was money in it, then people would be doing it. And when even farming an animal in a controlled setting isn't worth it, then that tells me that we're dealing with an animal that just plain isn't suitable for mass consumption.