environmental-law-bans-floridians removing-yard-eating-tortoises
- Thread starter Cowboy_Ken
- Start date
Every time I read something of this nature I wonder why they don't build a privacy fence (like most Californians have around their property) and just put the tortoise out on the other side of the fence?
Turtlepete
Well-Known Member
I love how these articles are written, as if being concerned for the welfare of an endangered species is just so totally absurd. Gopher tortoises are so vitally important to the Florida eco-system, and protecting them is absolutely crucial. We humans seem to think we should continually encroach upon wildlife habitat and not be forced to deal with the locals. Just like every idiot that moves into a house bordering the everglades and calls 911 screaming when there is an alligator in their pool.
I have seen it all my life. People move from large cities to the country, and try to change the country into what they moved away from.
I enjoy finding weird animals roaming the yard. I was a little upset one time when I had found an armadillo was living in my flower garden and feasting on the roots, but it was sooooooooooo cuuuuuute and it had two babies following it around when it would come out of it's burrow! 
I'm all about saving the animals, however, this is a little ridiculous, that you can't protect you house from caving in, which seems to be a thing in florida as it is. They don't need to harm them, just place them outside the yard.
Btw, jskahn, where do you see that at? I live in the big city and have never met a true city dweller that wants to live in the country. Now, I have seen many country lovers, that don't want to share their country home with the animals that were there first.
See, here in the city, we welcome all kinds of nature. We have plenty of preserved wooded parks for those animals. We live in tight quarters, so are used to sharing with all.
Btw, jskahn, where do you see that at? I live in the big city and have never met a true city dweller that wants to live in the country. Now, I have seen many country lovers, that don't want to share their country home with the animals that were there first.
See, here in the city, we welcome all kinds of nature. We have plenty of preserved wooded parks for those animals. We live in tight quarters, so are used to sharing with all.
You are not a tax paying property owner yet, are you? When you become one, and I know you will because you are a smart kid with a good head on your shoulders, and your property is besieged and destroyed by some wild critter, you will sing a different tune. When hours of hard labor in the hot sun and hundreds of dollars of supplies are ruined by some invasive little animal you will not hesitate to remove them from YOUR property any way you can.
Here's how I see this: Carefully moving the tortoise a few hundred feet off of your property into a nice sheltered wilderness area does not seem cruel or particularly unkind to me. There are a lot of hazards around a house. Chemicals, lawnmowers, dogs, cars, pools, electrical wires, etc... The sensible thing for the government to do if they want to protect these tortoises, is allow people to carefully move them away from human habitation where they are not wanted, or come move them to a safe area themselves if they don't trust the homeowners to do it right.
My property is MINE. I bought and paid for it so I could do with it what I want to do with it. I didn't buy it for the local animal population to wreck everything I try to do on it. I bought my property for my animals and my family to live and thrive on. Its just a little small plot of land and the local wild life can have ALL the land surrounding it and everywhere else. Heck, they can even have the parts of it that I'm not currently using. There are billions of uninhabited acres in this country for all the wild animals to live in. My little plot of land belongs to me and its for my use. I work hard and go out of my way to protect native animals in the wild. I have great respect for nature and the natural order of things. I spend my own time and money righting the wrongs that humans have done to the wild. All I want in return to have my tiny little piece of property and my animals unmolested by the locals. I don't think that is too much to ask. I'll respect and protect their land and they themselves, but I insist they respect my land and my boundaries. I don't want to wreck the whole world for wild life, but come on, can't we carve out a little territory for ourselves and keep the wild animals off of it if we so desire?
My property is MINE. I bought and paid for it so I could do with it what I want to do with it. I didn't buy it for the local animal population to wreck everything I try to do on it. I bought my property for my animals and my family to live and thrive on. Its just a little small plot of land and the local wild life can have ALL the land surrounding it and everywhere else. Heck, they can even have the parts of it that I'm not currently using. There are billions of uninhabited acres in this country for all the wild animals to live in. My little plot of land belongs to me and its for my use. I work hard and go out of my way to protect native animals in the wild. I have great respect for nature and the natural order of things. I spend my own time and money righting the wrongs that humans have done to the wild. All I want in return to have my tiny little piece of property and my animals unmolested by the locals. I don't think that is too much to ask. I'll respect and protect their land and they themselves, but I insist they respect my land and my boundaries. I don't want to wreck the whole world for wild life, but come on, can't we carve out a little territory for ourselves and keep the wild animals off of it if we so desire?
Who are we to buy a plot if land and call it ours. Guess American dream is to take all the land. Imagine if there was a rich animal that wasn't human out there, we would all be In trouble. Lol. I don't see anything wrong with moving them off the property, but the way out population is going, let's get real how much longer can they really last. Only way is to buy more land and protect that land. But as most say.... That's the next generation problem haha
Kyle
Kyle
That's just it. I don't want ALL the land. Just my tiny little piece. Have you ever driven cross country? Or flown in a plane and looked out the window? Sure there are some large metropolitan areas like the Los Angeles basin for example, but these giant human settlement areas are tiny specks on the map compared to all the untouched wild land out there.
I suppose I might have a different perspective on this because of my job. I spend a lot of time in far flung natural areas filming. I grew up in the big city, but now my job takes me all over in the wilderness. For example, I was just privileged to do a flying eagle job at the Trona Pinnacles. How lucky am I to be in the presence of an eagle first of all, but that location is truly breathtaking. No humans bothering the local animals out there.
Turtlepete
Well-Known Member
Tom, I completely get what your saying that your property is your own, and there is nothing wrong with carving out a LITTLE territory for ourselves.
But would you feel the same if you bought your property where a rich population of an endangered species formerly congregated? Where a ton of formerly wild land was knocked down for the latest housing complex? This is the problem in parts of Florida. Society continually encroaches upon what WAS wild land, like the everglades, and then uses the same logic you describe to claim it as their own property, and expect all the wildlife to just leave. If people are going to continually encroach upon wild land, then they shouldn't expect to not have to put up with the locals, ya' know?
I'm not saying the laws with these gopher tortoises are right. Honestly, its probably more compromising to their safety if the animals are to stay where they are, but there may very likely be nowhere else for them to go. Whatever the situation, Gopher tortoises are a keystone species to our ecosystem, and I will always hold higher value for their existence then the solid integrity of somebody's foundation. If there is somewhere better for them to go, then fantastic, they don't need to be on your property, but what when there is nowhere else?
But would you feel the same if you bought your property where a rich population of an endangered species formerly congregated? Where a ton of formerly wild land was knocked down for the latest housing complex? This is the problem in parts of Florida. Society continually encroaches upon what WAS wild land, like the everglades, and then uses the same logic you describe to claim it as their own property, and expect all the wildlife to just leave. If people are going to continually encroach upon wild land, then they shouldn't expect to not have to put up with the locals, ya' know?
I'm not saying the laws with these gopher tortoises are right. Honestly, its probably more compromising to their safety if the animals are to stay where they are, but there may very likely be nowhere else for them to go. Whatever the situation, Gopher tortoises are a keystone species to our ecosystem, and I will always hold higher value for their existence then the solid integrity of somebody's foundation. If there is somewhere better for them to go, then fantastic, they don't need to be on your property, but what when there is nowhere else?
Check it out: trona pinnacles
That is my point. There are lots of other places for them to be, instead of under some poor saps house. I've driven all over Florida. There is more untouched uninhabited acreage than there is human habitation. A LOT more.
This is an interesting conundrum that I have been mulling over and debating since I was a child. Do we kill ourselves to stop the destruction of the planet? I'm not going first. Every living thing has to kill other living things to survive. Humans are no exception. Mother bear drives off humans to protect her babies. My wife drives off bears to protect our baby. Relocate a problem bear into another bear's territory and the intruder will be driven off. If a bear comes on to my territory, I too will drive it off.
There is no right or wrong about any of this. Its all about how individuals "feel" about it.
I drove across the country a few times in my life. Maybe like 15 times. Plenty of lab out there indeed. Not disagreeing with you at all. I would love to have a house where I can share myproperty with the wild. Only thing is some animals are found only it little areas on the whole world map. If moved out of that area or forced out they may not be able to survive even if there is hundreds and thousands of miles of unoccupied land. The law I don't think is a bad thing, not like they are saying if you see a tortoise on your property you can shoot it dead or something. Eventually though is as a species will have to start learning to share the land
Kyle
Kyle
I agree tom, no right no wrong. It's just good to have people aware.
Somebody asked you where you have seen this, I can tell you where I have seen it. Colorado. Washington. Arizona.
Staten Island, N.Y. mainly, but in my years doing environmental studies for Herpetological Associates in New Jersey, I have seen many small towns, a couple of which had endangered Muhlenberg turtles, turned into mini cities.
Also, I agree with " I have never seen a true city dweller that wants to live in the country" They move to the county for various reasons, and try to change into the city, they prefer.
I was raised solely in the concrete jungle. Right near LAX. Right where the Rodney King L.A. Riots started. Lived there for 22 years.
I now live right on the edge of civilization on the border of the national forest. I have a long dirt road to drive to get to my property. I am that city dweller who moved to the country, and I have NO desire to make where I am now like where I came from. I moved out here to get away from those horrors. I like seeing deer, coyote, road runners, snakes, hawks, ravens and all sorts of other animals all over the place out here. I like seeing them on walks when I hike around the area. Where I don't like to see any of them is on my ranch or in my tortoise pens. Outside the wall is their territory. Inside the wall is mine.
It was the same in the city, there were just much more dangerous animals there.
That was my point a while back that no one acknowledged. If you put up a fence around your property to keep out the wild animals, then place the tortoise on the outside of the fence, he's still in his territory, he just no longer has access to yours. Yes, fencing your whole property is costly. But if you don't want to do it, quit complaining about the destructive tortoises.
