Euthanizing a tortoise

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reptylefreek

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Not everyone lives in the city and has a vet living practically next door. Not only that but I have family that lives on an island that doesn't even have a gas station on it... vet not an option for them at 2 in the morning. On top of that people need to stop thinking in terms of pet. When you run a business with hundreds of animals around you, you do not get attatched there for its easier to make a quick decision to put the animal out of its misery when you know its too late for them to survive. I thinks it's nieve to think a vet is your only option. If it's your beloved pet and you would spend a years salary to make it better thats your perogative. People on farms make these decisions all day, an animal is sick and would cost you more then its worth to save you put it outa its misery. What if you bred a clutch of torts and half the babies hatched undeveloped and clearly were not gonna make it. Is a vet in order? I would use the freezer method.
 

DoctorCosmonaut

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Are there not drugs or something that one can get from their vet to do the job? So that way if u couldn't get to them u could use them yourself?
 
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stells

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Aren't there laws over there where it wouldn't be quite legal to even do this????

Personally i couldn't even consider doing this myself... i know i'm a big wimp... but none of the ways mentioned in this thread i could do... i would never be able to shut the freezer door... drowning... now come on... kittens were mentioned earlier... but you would never drown one of those... would you Meg.... bringing that up doesn't come into it kittens are mammals... warm blooded... decapitation... i would be physically sick... gasing nope couldn't do that either.... so when it comes to it i am doomed lol

I would cool the tortoise off until i could get it to a vet and let them do it.... because its not physically in me to kill anything... well moths maybe....oh and slugs....

Maybe that makes just me very English.....
 

Shelly

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DoctorCosmonaut said:
Are there not drugs or something that one can get from their vet to do the job? So that way if u couldn't get to them u could use them yourself?

I'm not sure if Euthanol can be perscribed. Not sure too many Vets would be willing to do that even if it was. Bad for business...
 

chadk

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DoctorCosmonaut said:
I don't think Meg talked about drowining... but I may be wrong. I think she just referred to gassing with CO2... Not that I am advocating either... Nor freezing... Think my TROPICAL tort would not enjoy that... I don't know what I like! Well I don't like any of it... I mean what I think is best...

P.S. Shouldn't this thread be in debatable topics?

Yes, you are wrong :p

Meg90 said:
I would use CO2, and if I couldn't get that, I would drown it in warm water.

People keep saying "OHMYGOD" when you say drown, like I think its a pleasant thing to do. I do not think it would be pleasant. I think it would be horrifying. But it is quick. Tortoises do not swim (well, the majority of species don't) which means that without the knowledge and skill to hold their breath, it would be over quickly. In the case of species that do swim, like RF YF, I would pick CO2 as my first choice.

I cannot understand how anyone could put an animal in the refrigerator and leave them to die a slow, and painful death that would span days before they entered the freezer. How could you stand to listen to them, moving slower and slower scratching at the container trying to get out? For a species that doesn't hibernate, its no less than torturous.

I would rather live with the trauma of drowning a live animal than live with seeing their body slowly go lifeless as I'm getting milk for my cereal.

IMO the fridge/freezer method is the most inhumane death suggested in these last five pages.

As someone said earlier to my post regarding the use of dry ice - CO2 may not be effective on reptiles. Before experimenting, i'd be sure you KNOW your animal will die quickly as you hope... And in some cases, too much C02 can actually burn the lungs and just cause lots of pain and trauma before the animal dies. So know what you are doing before you start.

And your idea that a tort can't hold it's breath shows your inexperience. As somone noted the extreme cases of torts in swimming pools surviving... does your own tort never stick it's entire head under water to drink? My sullies and russians do that. Clearly they have figured out how not to drown with their face under water :cool:

And even if they did drown, suffocation and drowning are still traumatic to the animal and they will panic and flail and try to get air. I thought the idea was to be instant, pain free, trauma free? .22 to the head does that just fine.

I have put down my own beloved family dog with a gun. It was the best thing I could think of to do for her. She hated the vet. There was no way I was going to bring her to the vet or even invite one over (she is too smart not to recognize a vet when she saw\smelled on....) on her last day. We took one last walk together. The thing she loved most. And in an instant, she was gone. Was traumatic (lots of smasms and convulsions to have to see) for me, but I knew it was best.

I also have put down a few rabbits who had severe injuries. A smack on the back of the skull with a small club did the job. Then the chickens I have to cull out of my flock each year get decapitated. And believe it or not, that can be easier to mess up than you think. Same for the rabbits. So that is why I stress that you need to have a fool proof plan before you start. I messed up with my plan of a quick kill the first time on the rabbit and with a chicken. It worked fine in my head as I planned it, but reality was not so easy.

I also drowned a wild rabbit by hand once. NOT recommended. I found a rabbit caugt in somebodies leg type trap when I was about 12 in Texas. It was screaming like crazy (yes, rabbits have quite the vocal abililty) and there was a deep puddle right by it. I wanted to put it out of it's misery and stop that crazy screaming at the same time - so why not drown it I thought... I should have just whacked it behind the ears with a big stick or something... Point being, don't go by what sounds like a good idea in your head... You really don't want to find out if you were right or wrong in the heat of the moment....
 

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again... this is a reptile... not a mammal... very big difference.

Ok... You take your animal to the vet... for what ever reason...

Kayti said:
I am having a hard time understanding why this is even a topic of conversation. When would a vet not be an option?

Seeing as we could never be 100% certain that any method other than extensively researched and medically approved methods of killing an animal are humane, why would you ever risk it? Especially something as logically flawed as freezing.

Would you try to euthanize a dog by yourself? How about a human? Hopefully not.

It's a lot more complicated than supposed "common sense" and just assuming a cold blooded animal will react to cold temperatures in a certain way. That's why vets go to school for 8+ years. (And even then some of them seem willing to risk an ill-informed decision, at least when it come to reptiles, I've found.)

Even if I thought my tortoise was in pain and dying, I would still take them to a vet. That way they would at least have a chance, and if not, access to a painless death.
Vets aren't that expensive. I doubt euthanizing a tortoise would cost more that $100 at most.
I think having a bit of savings you are willing to spend on vet bills in case of an emergency qualifies as basic care for any pet.
 

mctlong

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reptylefreek said:
Not everyone lives in the city and has a vet living practically next door. Not only that but I have family that lives on an island that doesn't even have a gas station on it... vet not an option for them at 2 in the morning. On top of that people need to stop thinking in terms of pet. When you run a business with hundreds of animals around you, you do not get attatched there for its easier to make a quick decision to put the animal out of its misery when you know its too late for them to survive. I thinks it's nieve to think a vet is your only option. If it's your beloved pet and you would spend a years salary to make it better thats your perogative. People on farms make these decisions all day, an animal is sick and would cost you more then its worth to save you put it outa its misery. What if you bred a clutch of torts and half the babies hatched undeveloped and clearly were not gonna make it. Is a vet in order? I would use the freezer method.

I can't stop thinking in terms of a pet. My tort is a pet. Perhaps my thoughts would be diffrent if I were a breeder, but I'm not. I'm a pet owner and I would do anything and everything in my power to prevent suffering of my tort.

I agree that sometimes a vet is not an option. Some people live in isolated areas where there are no vets. It difficult to imagine having to put down an animal without a vet, but sadly its sometimes necessary. If my tort was seriously malled by a dog or a raccoon and there was no vet around to put it out of its misery, I'd do it myself. I'd want the animal put out of its misery as soon as possible.

I'm glad I live in an area where there are 24 hour vets.
 

Kayti

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Shelly - Yes I am serious. I grew up on an island with no vet, but I still took all my animals to one when they needed it. Where I live now, the closest (good) vet is almost an hour away, but I do it. I can barely afford rent, but I still took my rat to the vet when she had a bacterial infection. I realize getting your animals to the vet can be hard, but it's not a choice in my opinion. When I chose to have pets, I chose to pay vet bills and drive long distances.
I guess it could be entirely impossible in some circumstances- but you can always get medical advice over the phone.

People on farms make these decisions all day, an animal is sick and would cost you more then its worth to save you put it outa its misery.

Forgetting for a moment that I don't see serious ethical transgressions in profiting off of an animal without having its best interests in mind, I recognize that someone with a lot of animals, or a breeder looking to make money, might see the necessity of veterinarians differently.

I have a friend who rescues cats out of her home- she works with a local shelter, and fosters massive amounts of cats and kittens every year. She keeps euthanasia shots at her home. She is not a vet, but she does have years and years of experience working with cats. I'm not sure about the legality of what she does, and I still think she should use qualified veterinarians to make medical decisions, but doing it herself is much cheaper/easier.
If I lived faraway from society and veterinarians, I would probably do what she does for my pets.


I think if it were easier to empathize with reptiles, no one would even consider guessing with methods to kill them.

I thinks it's nieve to think a vet is your only option. If it's your beloved pet and you would spend a years salary to make it better thats your perogative.

I really don't understand how someone could see valuing life as a just a personal prerogative. I don't not want my pets to have painful deaths because I love them- I don't want them to have painful deaths because that would be wrong.
I don't want any animal - or person for that matter - to suffer needlessly!
 

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Let's please keep this topic on the 'hows' rather than the 'whys', ethics, animal rights, etc. Comparing to what you might or might not do for a human or other sort of animal is not really on topic here. It is also not going to be helpful to debate when one should or should not choose to use a vet- each of us has to make that sort of decision on our own.

This is already a difficult topic to discuss- lets not make it harder.
 

Kayti

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Madkins007 said:
Let's please keep this topic on the 'hows' rather than the 'whys', ethics, animal rights, etc. Comparing to what you might or might not do for a human or other sort of animal is not really on topic here. It is also not going to be helpful to debate when one should or should not choose to use a vet- each of us has to make that sort of decision on our own.

This is already a difficult topic to discuss- lets not make it harder.

But seeing a veterinarian is my "how" of euthanasia, and animal rights are the reasons why.
 

mctlong

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Kayti said:
Madkins007 said:
Let's please keep this topic on the 'hows' rather than the 'whys', ethics, animal rights, etc. Comparing to what you might or might not do for a human or other sort of animal is not really on topic here. It is also not going to be helpful to debate when one should or should not choose to use a vet- each of us has to make that sort of decision on our own.

This is already a difficult topic to discuss- lets not make it harder.

But seeing a veterinarian is my "how" of euthanasia, and animal rights are the reasons why.

I agree. Its difficult to separate the two.
 

Meg90

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Oh whatever. I think shooting the family dog is a helluva lot more traumatic then taking it to the vet. I can't imagine telling a dog to sit, and stay and then backing up and shooting it. You can calm an animal down in the office. They let you pet them and be with them when the injection is done. If the owners are willing to take the time, it can be peaceful for their pet.

I also think half of the people here don't know what freezing DOES. You freeze from the outside in. First your extremeties then the rest of your body. It is PAINFUL. Eventually the tissues farthest away like your toes and hands, and feet turns necrotic, and dead. The blood no longer flows there, and the nerves begin to die. Has anyone here ever had a severe case of frostbite? Ever see what fingers look like when they are frozen? Your body parts actually begin to die, and blood no longer flows there. They are literally black, and dead. It is NOT painless.

Drowning at BEST takes minutes. SO what if tortoises submerge their heads to drink. That does NOT mean that they know how to hold their breath. I don't know how that would make sense to anyone. They drink the way a human does, by pausing for breath.

And Chad, WHAT species survive in a pool of water? If you will notice I said for animals with the capacity to swim, like a REDFOOT, I would use CO2, and not drowning. Your post was to be argumentative and nothing further. I covered both sides of that argument. I think people need to read more carefully.

It all boils down to this: what is 6, 10 minuntes of trauma when compared to a death that would take days? Especially if the animals in "injured" from being a chew toy, or is it bad shape from some other ailment. How did a quick death become less humane than something that would take DAYS?
 

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Kayti said:
Shelly - Yes I am serious. I grew up on an island with no vet, but I still took all my animals to one when they needed it.

We are not talking about YOUR pets! We are talking about any tortoise or turtle that you may encounter.
So if you find a badly injured turtle in the road at 2 AM, you are going to drop everything, get on a boat, travel for who knows how long, find an emergency Vet, sit in the waiting room for an hour, and pay at least $100 (not counting boat tickets) to euthanize the turtle?
If you would do that, you are nothing short of a saint. I, on the other hand, am not a saint.

Meg90 said:
Oh whatever. I think shooting the family dog is a helluva lot more traumatic then taking it to the vet. I can't imagine telling a dog to sit, and stay and then backing up and shooting it. You can calm an animal down in the office. They let you pet them and be with them when the injection is done. If the owners are willing to take the time, it can be peaceful for their pet.

You sound like somebody that takes their dog to the vet every time it hiccups. Your dog is probably very comfortable there, and used to car trips, etc.
My old dog is blind, and hasn't been in a car more than 3-4 times in her life, and that was when she was sighted. She hated car trips, and would vomit and urinate over everything.
When the time comes, I will take her to the vet, and it will be hugely traumatic for both of us.
But if I lived in the country, and owned a gun, and had the courage, I would shoot her while she slept.
 

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Meg, I used to work in a vet hospital. I've held dogs while they got injected. I know first hand what it is like for the family dog to look desperately for their owner as they are dragged into the examining room for the shot. Peeing on the floor. Crying out. Trembling the whole time.... And I've seen old dogs come in, like they already know what is coming. Just sit there with a look of tiredness and duty and take the shot without so much as a whimper. But my dog was the kind that hated the vet. Even though she could no longer walk on her own, I carried the german shepherd down a trail in the woods and could see the joy and excitement as she was in her element. And I chose to put her last minutes above my own fears and nerves in doing what I knew would be the qucikest and least traumatic experience for HER. Not everyone has what it takes to do this, for better or worse, but I knew, for her, it was best. (ever read "of mice and men"... I kinda got the idea from that I think)

And my only point in these stories of mine is to share some experiences that may help others. As I have learned the hard way, taking a life is traumatic, and if you mess up, it is 10 times more traumatic for both sides. Do some research and have a plan ahead of time...

Seriously, did you read the other post about the torts in the swimming pools?

How does a tort drink with it's head under for a good minute or 2 and NOT know how to hold it's breath?? I don't drink with my whole head under water... Do you?? And isn't 'pausing' for breath pretty much the same as holding your breath??????? If i put my head under water, and pause for a few seconds, then take it out and breath... I just held my breath!! :) And again, 5 minutes, even 5 seconds, if it can be avoided, is really too much. The whole point is to do be instant and painless...
 

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So you are against the freezer method then Chad? Are you voting for decap or shooting?
 

-EJ

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I had a favorite pet put down. It was hurtful but peaceful.

I've dealt with reptiles for over 30 years. Freezing is still the most practical means of euthanisinga reptile.

chadk said:
Meg, I used to work in a vet hospital. I've held dogs while they got injected. I know first hand what it is like for the family dog to look desperately for their owner as they are dragged into the examining room for the shot. Peeing on the floor. Crying out. Trembling the whole time.... And I've seen old dogs come in, like they already know what is coming. Just sit there with a look of tiredness and duty and take the shot without so much as a whimper. But my dog was the kind that hated the vet. Even though she could no longer walk on her own, I carried the german shepherd down a trail in the woods and could see the joy and excitement as she was in her element. And I chose to put her last minutes above my own fears and nerves in doing what I knew would be the qucikest and least traumatic experience for HER. Not everyone has what it takes to do this, for better or worse, but I knew, for her, it was best. (ever read "of mice and men"... I kinda got the idea from that I think)

And my only point in these stories of mine is to share some experiences that may help others. As I have learned the hard way, taking a life is traumatic, and if you mess up, it is 10 times more traumatic for both sides. Do some research and have a plan ahead of time...

Seriously, did you read the other post about the torts in the swimming pools?

How does a tort drink with it's head under for a good minute or 2 and NOT know how to hold it's breath?? I don't drink with my whole head under water... Do you?? And isn't 'pausing' for breath pretty much the same as holding your breath??????? If i put my head under water, and pause for a few seconds, then take it out and breath... I just held my breath!! :) And again, 5 minutes, even 5 seconds, if it can be avoided, is really too much. The whole point is to do be instant and painless...
 

chadk

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Like I said, I can't see decapition being easy. It's not like they will stick out their neck willingly and hold it nice and still for you. You'd need a good sharp hatchet and a good chopping block - and a way to keep the neck outstretched. I once had to try to cut the head off a snapping turtle i THOUGHT was already dead. Wasn't going to happen... They have a lot of muscles in their necks. Just using a sharp knife or a good sized tort is going to be harder than you might think. Even on a chicken I found it took a certain technique to be quick and clean. Freezing would be my choice before that, but would need to research more first. But in my circumstances, living where I do and with access to my guns... a bullet would be the closest thing to instant and painless - so I'd do that. But many of you don't have that option or would not want that option.
 

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If the pain involved with lethal injection is still being debated for humans, were decades away from absolutes when it comes to pets! With that said we all have different opinions, and thats all they are is opinions, why do we argue about the BEST way to put down an animal. Opinions are like as.h...............never mind!

Its hard for me to believe that anything is quicker and less painless than decapation, but I personally don't have the guts to do that to a deer, let alone my pet. Its odd, because that statement alone puts my feelings and pain ahead of the animals!

While decap and drowning are not for me, I do respect that others do see these as viable options.

Now we can add euthanasia methods to D3, aquariams, Mazuri, UVB, water bowls, etc, etc.....to the topics we don't ALL see eye to eye on. But really, isn't that what a forum is all about? If Meg, or Chad, or EJ, or Madkins or Danny or Yvonne.............was always right, we have no forum!
 

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OMG!! I can't believe what I'm reading....I feel like I'm in the twilight zone......In all the years I'm on forums.....I have never read a thread like this one. What a horror...it just gets sicker.....
 

Isa

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Really nice post Kayti, I think that a vet is always an option wherever you live.
Terry, same here. I can't believe what I am reading!!!!
 
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