Experiments...

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terryo

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Kelly, there are a lot of people here that respect you, and look forward to seeing pictures of your tortoises, me included. But, just like people respect you, so do many people respect the person who posts his/her progress with their torts, (known as the experiment). Everyone knows who you're talking about in this thread, and of course there are lots of people who are going to retaliate with some harsh words. If someone posted a thread and everyone knew it was about you, I'm sure there are some of us who would stick up for you in the same way. IMHO, threads like this are what's turning this forum into a two sided school yard.

"As I said before, this thread is nothing more than a low brow attempt to character assassinate while pretending to look like a concerned patron....poppycock! as they might say."

Unfortunately, there are many people who will agree with this.

The people involved in this...three of that I know....have always shared their experience and knowledge with everyone on this forum. This is no different that that. They are just sharing with us the way they are raising their tortoises, and doing a beautiful job, I might add.
 

dmmj

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I have to disagree people experiment on their children all of the time, some people raise them strict other take a more lenient approach, some take the tact in between. Do people who feed their dogs an all natural raw food diet experimenting on them? I don't know if it is recognized or what, are they being cruel to their dogs by doing that? I know of only 3 people on this forum who labeled their thread "experiments" so you are obviously talking about one or all of them. Come on out and say who you are taking about so we don't have to hint around anymore. And personally I don't think any of them are doing this for "brownie points" they are simply offering a different way of raising tortoises then has been previously done. Tortoise husbandry changes all of the time, remember rabbit pellets good for tortoises to live on, now most people don't think that anymore. Did experimenting with different substrates change this? was it bad? I remember when I first got into tortoise keeping most people thought " you don't need to give them water, they get all of their water from their food" most people don't believe that anymore, did experimenting change this?
I could go on and on about how tortoise husbandry changes over the years but I won't bore you guys with that. Our current ideas about tortoise care would not have changed if people did not think differently and do experiments.
 

Tom

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Sorry I have not had the time to get involved in this thread until now. Jacqui has expressed my opinions better and more tactfully than I am capable of. I also appreciate and understand all the points of view expressed here.

Kelly, I keep telling you that I like that you question things. I also respect your opinion and think that your Greeks are very attractive and very well raised. But each time you ask me these questions, and I try to answer honestly and earnestly, it degenerates in to name calling and anger. I just don't see the point in arguing over it again. I'm only doing what I believe to be the best things for my tortoises, based on what I've seen and learned, and sharing it with my friends and family here on the forum. Other people have already done all the things I'm doing, I'm just re-doing it and sharing it, every step of the way, with my tortoise friends here on the forum. You've seen the results. Do you really think any harm has come to Tuck or Trey? I wish I could find a way to get you to share my enthusiasm instead of it bothering you so much. I mean seriously, look at all the smooth sulcatas and leopards we see on this forum all the time now! Don't misunderstand. I'm not taking credit for all of that, but I AM very happy about it. I don't think it needs to be an emo love fest everyday, but we all share a common interest here and frankly, I'd like to see an end to all the fighting. I do share the opinion that some of your comments are inflammatory, although I am NOT inflamed. I too could care less about "brownie points" or "bigging myself up" and I'm sorry you see it that way. It was very nice of each those people to give me a rep point and say something nice, but if Josh deleted the entire rep point system, post number, join date, stars, colors, titles and all that stuff, NOTHING would change about what I post, what I do everyday, and how obsessed I am with ending pyramiding. NOTHING.

Paul, I've grown so weary of your attempts to discredit me. Its laughable and pitiful. Don't you talk tortoises with other tortoise people? Isn't that what all of us do here on the forum? Just because I like to talk tortoises with tortoise people does not mean that I know nothing about tortoises and don't have my own experienced based opinions. Because I shared the uncensored opinions of a few tortoise people that I respect, does not mean I am incapable of thinking for myself as you are suggesting. Good lord man, if you think so little of me then why do you care what I say or think? Just skip it. Really dude, find another obsession. Its over Paul, I just don't love you anymore. You are going to have to pick yourself and find someone new. Come on. There are plenty of fish in the sea. You'll probably be able to find someone even BETTER than me...
 
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stells

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I'll make this my last post on the thread... so the barrage can continue...

People can say what they like... they can think what they like about this thread... the PM's of support i have had... has shown me that some people... think the exact same thing... and are glad someone has posted it...

Don't you find it sad... that they can't actually post it themselves... because of the flack they will get... because they feel that only one opinion is allowed... because... i do...

At the end of the day... its not about all the people that think it is about them... its about the tortoises!!!
 

exoticsdr

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Sorry, but you play the victim so well...too bad you do it EVERY time someone calls you out on the carpet to take responsibility for your comments (barrages).... my barrage is over.

stells said:
I'll make this my last post on the thread... so the barrage can continue...

People can say what they like... they can think what they like about this thread... the PM's of support i have had... has shown me that some people... think the exact same thing... and are glad someone has posted it...

Don't you find it sad... that they can't actually post it themselves... because of the flack they will get... because they feel that only one opinion is allowed... because... i do...

At the end of the day... its not about all the people that think it is about them... its about the tortoises!!!
 

onarock

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Tom, Im just waiting for someone to pop up who argues a point to no end, who bases his/her opinions on supposed experience and then comes out and says that his/her opinion is actually based on the opinions of others and not their own experience. I only know 1 person on this forum that fits that descripion. YOU! Someone who posts generalizatons on subjects and the second anyone disagrees, comes flying out with 20+, 25+, wait for it...30+ years of experience to back themself up. (just look what you did to Mick - Arizona Tortoise Compound on your Leopard Tortoise Poll thread). Someone who posts the opinion of five fictional characters and 2 people with a pulse as some sort of proof to discredit or invalidate forum members. If those 5 fictional characters want to speak for themselves its www.tortoiseforum.org, we would be happy to have them. People have read my stuff and I stand by it 100%, they have also read yours. You and others said I was CRAZY for going back and reading your posts....really. I no longer have to tell others to read your long ago history, the..., Are Leopard Tortoises Shy Poll - thread is less than a week old. Anyone can read it. You shot yourself in the foot and MANY, MANY people saw it. You might want to re-think that firearms course your taking, its not helping.

Weary of my attempt to discredit... you did that one all on your own, Buddy...and I was watching. You just keep doing what your good at. Holding the door open on TFO. Welcoming all the newbies handing out Locale Specific care sheets and giving +1 ratings to anyone who walks through the TFO door with a pulse. "Let me get that door for ya sir, welcome to TFO, my name is Tom, here is a copy of my care sheet, your reputation points from me should show in a week."

Thats my .02 cents on the matter, you can keep it as a tip Tom, thanks for getting the door.
 

dmarcus

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This is really getting ridicules, why do we constantly have to read about someone's dislike for other members on this forum. I always try to be respectful when posting on a thread because I don't want to get attacked because someone does not like what I said or disagrees with me and I am getting tired of it.

We are all here to learn from each other and to help other who asks for it. Everyone should be allowed to give there suggestions on what might work or things to try without getting called names or other bad things. We are all adults and we need to remember that we have kids on this forum and we are always getting new members and why should they be subjected to all this pettiness that we have been seeing over the past few weeks?

If you don’t like or agree with what someone has to say, stop posting on the particular thread or just handle it like adults and send them a PM so that your disagreement does not involve everyone else.

I LOVE THIS FORUM, BUT I HATE ALWAYS HAVING TO READ ALL THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW!!
 

Yvonne G

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Tom: Please let him have the last word. It won't hurt.
 

dmmj

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dalano73 said:
This is really getting ridicules, why do we constantly have to read about someone's dislike for other members on this forum. I always try to be respectful when posting on a thread because I don't want to get attacked because someone does not like what I said or disagrees with me and I am getting tired of it.

We are all here to learn from each other and to help other who asks for it. Everyone should be allowed to give there suggestions on what might work or things to try without getting called names or other bad things. We are all adults and we need to remember that we have kids on this forum and we are always getting new members and why should they be subjected to all this pettiness that we have been seeing over the past few weeks?

If you don’t like or agree with what someone has to say, stop posting on the particular thread or just handle it like adults and send them a PM so that your disagreement does not involve everyone else.

I LOVE THIS FORUM, BUT I HATE ALWAYS HAVING TO READ ALL THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW!!
+ 1
 

Candy

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Wow I haven't been on this forum very much lately and now I'm reminded of why that is. You guys are mean with your cutting comments. Stells posted a thread and all you can do is put her down for it. Why can't we have a few posts about discussing why she feels this way instead of attacking her? Why can't we all just post information about why we feel this would or would not be good to do? If you already know that you're going to just insult someone then why do you get onto her thread to begin with? She has her own opinion and has her own reasoning why she feels this way. This is probably the reason that the number one respected person on this forum doesn't come around much anymore. :( How sad.
 

Jacqui

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stells said:
Flea treatments... brands of food... etc have all been tried and tested before they go on the market... so the experimenting has already been done... trying an already tried and testing product is more down to preference of a marketed product... and which you prefer... not experimentation...

I don't experiment on my children... i have thought about it... but fear the authorities might have something to say about that :p :D Children certainly have rights too... the court case where one divorced her parents springs to mind...

I can do friendly... i think my English dry humour must just come across as wrong to alot of people here :D Its certainly easier than a barrage of unfriendly comments which i have fallen victim to in the past...
The things we are trying in these experiments has also been done. All we are doing are applying what we normally would do and seeing how it compares to another member in another part of the country.

LOL your right about the humor problem between our two countries. Very few in the UK ever understand my humor either. :D

P.S. just got on for the first time since I posted this morning, so if this is just repeating what others have sad sorry. I am posting as I read the thread. :tort:



Angi said:
Just to make things clear what I concider experimenting on my children is seeing if they do better in school or feel better during the day when they have a whole fruit smoothie everyday for breakfast or taking red dye out of their diet to see if they quit getting head aches. With my dogs I have added the Chinese herbs that I eat to their food. The result I got with this was my Rat Terrier quit chewing on his leg. When I took him off the herbs he started chewing again. So no I am not putting my children at risk or doing things to my dog that the dog food company's have already done. In fact I did not think about it being an experiment until I read your tread. I thought of it as finding ways to make thoughs I love healthier. And when it comes to food I do not trust the goverment or the FDA. I think they are a bunch of crooks that try to get us to eat garbage and are motivated by $$$$$$. Sorry for going off but I felt I had to defend myself as a mother.
Interesting, what herbs did you try? Sorry for taking this thread a bit off topic, but I am really interested as I try to use herbs for medicating tortoises and turtles.



EricIvins said:
stells said:
Flea treatments... brands of food... etc have all been tried and tested before they go on the market... so the experimenting has already been done... trying an already tried and testing product is more down to preference of a marketed product... and which you prefer... not experimentation...

Things may be tried and tested in a Lab, but they haven't been tested by me, for me, and the situation(s) I'm in.........Therefore, I'll experiment with something to see if it works for me.......Or my Tortoises for that matter.........I know what either works, or may work for me........That's what matters......

Exactly! :tort:



dalano73 said:
This is really getting ridicules, why do we constantly have to read about someone's dislike for other members on this forum. I always try to be respectful when posting on a thread because I don't want to get attacked because someone does not like what I said or disagrees with me and I am getting tired of it.

We are all here to learn from each other and to help other who asks for it. Everyone should be allowed to give there suggestions on what might work or things to try without getting called names or other bad things. We are all adults and we need to remember that we have kids on this forum and we are always getting new members and why should they be subjected to all this pettiness that we have been seeing over the past few weeks?

If you don’t like or agree with what someone has to say, stop posting on the particular thread or just handle it like adults and send them a PM so that your disagreement does not involve everyone else.

I LOVE THIS FORUM, BUT I HATE ALWAYS HAVING TO READ ALL THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW!!

Now this is a must read post! I hope all of you read this and take it to heart.



Like I said, I have been gone all day and I will admit I am saddened and disappoint in just about all of you who posted in this thread. It went from a discussion of experiments back to the usual of late battle between two sides. :( :( How about all of you stop reading who the writer of the post is and just give your response as tho it's your best friend who posted each and every comment? This kind of response that we have been doing of late is not helping anybody nor any tortoise. If you can't keep in your minds why we are all here, please do everybody a favor and go away from the forum for awhile. *shaking my head at this behavior once more today*

Also as a mod tho I would love to go back and delete about half of these posts, I will not. However from this point on, ANY negative comments directed at another member, WILL be deleted as soon as I see them.
 

Angi

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@ Jacqui~Coix Lacyma-Jobi seed, Chinese Yam Root, Euryale Ferox ( Fox Nut) Seed, Nelumbo Nucifera (lotus) Seed, Nelumbo Nucifera ( Lotus) Root, Lilium Browni (Water Lily) Bulb and Imperata Root. It is a Sunrider consintrated herbal food. I eat it. It is not medicinal but rejuvination. Giving your body the food so the it can rejuvinate. I believe so many of the foods we eat today are depleated of the nutitional value that our bodies can not do what they are intended to do.
With my rat terrier he chewed on his leg because it itched I think. I tried badaging it (he chewed them off), I tried Niosporin (he licked it off then threw up) finally I gave hem my herbs and it went away. I took him off it it came back. Everytime I quit giving it to him his leg becomes raw and bloody. I have not given this to my torts. I do not know enough about torts to experiment with untried foods.
 

Mao Senpai

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dalano73 said:
This is really getting ridicules, why do we constantly have to read about someone's dislike for other members on this forum. I always try to be respectful when posting on a thread because I don't want to get attacked because someone does not like what I said or disagrees with me and I am getting tired of it.

We are all here to learn from each other and to help other who asks for it. Everyone should be allowed to give there suggestions on what might work or things to try without getting called names or other bad things. We are all adults and we need to remember that we have kids on this forum and we are always getting new members and why should they be subjected to all this pettiness that we have been seeing over the past few weeks?

If you don’t like or agree with what someone has to say, stop posting on the particular thread or just handle it like adults and send them a PM so that your disagreement does not involve everyone else.

I LOVE THIS FORUM, BUT I HATE ALWAYS HAVING TO READ ALL THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW!!

+1

You know who you are....
 

Madkins007

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stells said:
I'll make this my last post on the thread... so the barrage can continue...

People can say what they like... they can think what they like about this thread... the PM's of support i have had... has shown me that some people... think the exact same thing... and are glad someone has posted it...

Don't you find it sad... that they can't actually post it themselves... because of the flack they will get... because they feel that only one opinion is allowed... because... i do...

At the end of the day... its not about all the people that think it is about them... its about the tortoises!!!


Oddly enough, this is why I do not go to a couple other popular tortoise and reptile sites- there are 'cultures' there that one dares not disturb. There are people you should not cross, there are opinions you should not express, and there are methods and practices that you should not question.

The even more odd thing is... I would bet that most of the people on those other sites would say that it is not happening. I would bet that they think they are being warm, helpful, and open-minded.
 

Watermelon

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I find it interesting when people post their experiments before/during results, its got more of a tortoise friendly feel to it rather than reading it from a research paper.

I'm a 'newbie', I've read the before experiment posts and because I have half a brain I wouldn't try the method on my tortoise before the results came out. Simples.

If anyone does and it goes wrong then its their fault for being stupid. Maybe they need to look up the word experiment!

Sorry for being moany but I don't see problem.
 

harris

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I dated a Moany once. Or maybe it was Moana.
Love the avatar.
 

Kristina

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Candy said:
Wow I haven't been on this forum very much lately and now I'm reminded of why that is. You guys are mean with your cutting comments. Stells posted a thread and all you can do is put her down for it. Why can't we have a few posts about discussing why she feels this way instead of attacking her? Why can't we all just post information about why we feel this would or would not be good to do? If you already know that you're going to just insult someone then why do you get onto her thread to begin with? She has her own opinion and has her own reasoning why she feels this way. This is probably the reason that the number one respected person on this forum doesn't come around much anymore. :( How sad.

(speaking as myself, NOT as a moderator)

Just to be clear, it was okay for ME to be insulted and have MY feelings hurt by basically being called an abuser, and that how I take care of my tortoises constitutes animal cruelty, but it was NOT okay for me to defend myself or to disagree with the original post? I did no name calling or bashing. I simply posted my thoughts and opinions.

I am angry. I take great care of my tortoises, and to be told that what I am doing is animal cruelty ****** me off.

So you don't consider being called an abuser as putting someone down? I find that really interesting.
 

John

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LOL.......Is this still going on, Page four of war! I have to say I found the "forced to read it " comments amusing..........would seem more like curiousity killed the cat to me.....I mean me personally, I don't read anything I don't find interesting, and on the occasion I mistakenly do there is no sleep lost over it.:D

Okay thats all I got you can continue waring now.
 

Angi

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@ Kristina~ I have not seen your tread about keeping Sulcattas out side all year long. I would be interested in reading it. Can you please post a link. No I am not going to do it just because you do nor am I going to critisize something that you feel is working. This has just made me very interested to read it and I can't imagine how I missed something that so many others have seen.

Thanks:)
 
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