Feedback on hatchling Dalmatian Hermann's enclosure, please?

[minimoo]

Hi all! Trying to get a hatchling enclosure set up properly, and hoping to get some feedback. I've tried to meld both Tom's "Temperate Tortoise" and Chris Leone's hermanni care guides, and would really appreciate your folks' eyes on anything I may have missed/misunderstood/misinterpreted. This will be my first tortoise, so apologies for any egregious errors...

Notes:
1. Orchid bark is en route
2. Plan is for basking lamp (100w basking spot lamp) and LED grow lights to be on 12-14hr timer. Basking spot is at around 90...what is the minimum safe distance between tort and lamp?
3. Plan is for T5HO 10.0 fixture to be on timer for a few hours a day. Is there a best time for a hatchling to cash in on it being on? AM? PM? both??
4. Humidifier will be on humidistat to keep at about 75% "mid-tub" (first night it went up to 86 RH, and seems to be stable at around 73% for today)
5. Not sure CHE is necessary, but not quite sure what is best temp range for a young hatchling. Thermometer/hygrometer is about an inch above substrate, midway between hot/cool sides. Tub stayed at 71 degrees overnight, seems to be staying constant at 82 with the basking lamp on.
6. The cork tube is plugged on both ends, so that the tortoise won't try to go inside/get stuck.
7. I have rocks walling off the back of the hibiscus pot, so the tortoise doesn't try to get back there/get stuck.
8. Tub is 50g stock tank (~2'x4'; has shower curtain to enclose it for heat/humidity)
9. The idea behind placement of hardscape was to not have the entire area feel too open/exposed for a baby tort. Food bowl was going to be in the 'niche,' water bowl closer to the 'humid hide'.
10. Glazed ceramic pot hide on hot side meant to better retain some humidity inside. Temp gun says 80 on the substrate, 85 on top of pot.

I totally feel like a kid before Christmas and truly want to do right by the little nugget ? Thanks in advance!

 

[MarginatedMooney]

Hi there! Welcome to the forum!
It's great that you've come here for advice early on.
It looks like you're doing a lot of things right but there are a few things that could be better.

Your plan for the basking lamp sounds good but it's better to use a "flood" type bulb rather than a "spot" bulb. Spot bulbs have narrow, intense heat that can cause pyramiding in tortoises.
Your thermometer is your guide when it comes to how high your lamp should be from the tortoise. You want 95-100F at tortoise height. It's best to place a rock or some other tort-sized object under the lamp, let it sit, and use a handheld laser thermometer to check temps and adjust lamp distance accordingly.

With the UVB, there are two strategies people use. You can either have it on 12 hours a day at low UVB levels, like 1-2 UVB/further from the tort, or just have it on 3 or so hours a day at higher levels, like around 3-4 UVB. A solarmeter 6.5 really helps with getting the height right. It's expensive but will pay for itself over time since you can get more life out of your UVB tubes if you use it to make sure you're still getting good UVB and not having to replace your UVB tube every 6 months. You may be able to catch one on sale. I personally run my T5 10.0 UVB from noon till 3 to try to replicate the natural UVB spike you would see outdoors around noon and into the early afternoon. I get about 3-4 UVB directly under it.

Your humidity sounds excellent but humidifiers aren't recommended, especially if it's a cool misting type. They tend to cool the air down and also water droplets in the air aren't the best things for torts to be breathing in. It's better just to dump warm water on the substrate every so often to create humidity.

Your overnight and ambient daytime temps sound perfect. You want to keep overnight temps around 70-72F for hatchlings. I use a CHE on a thermostat but you may not need to if it stays warm enough.

I really like your setup. Your enclosure looks great! The size is fine for now but be aware that you'll need something bigger after about a year or two since your tortoise will need more space. 4' x 8' is recommended for juvenile and older torts.

 

[OkAdiza]

When does your little Hermann’s arrive?

 

[minimoo]

Hi there! Welcome to the forum!
It's great that you've come here for advice early on.
It looks like you're doing a lot of things right but there are a few things that could be better.

Your plan for the basking lamp sounds good but it's better to use a "flood" type bulb rather than a "spot" bulb. Spot bulbs have narrow, intense heat that can cause pyramiding in tortoises.
Your thermometer is your guide when it comes to how high your lamp should be from the tortoise. You want 95-100F at tortoise height. It's best to place a rock or some other tort-sized object under the lamp, let it sit, and use a handheld laser thermometer to check temps and adjust lamp distance accordingly.

With the UVB, there are two strategies people use. You can either have it on 12 hours a day at low UVB levels, like 1-2 UVB/further from the tort, or just have it on 3 or so hours a day at higher levels, like around 3-4 UVB. A solarmeter 6.5 really helps with getting the height right. It's expensive but will pay for itself over time since you can get more life out of your UVB tubes if you use it to make sure you're still getting good UVB and not having to replace your UVB tube every 6 months. You may be able to catch one on sale. I personally run my T5 10.0 UVB from noon till 3 to try to replicate the natural UVB spike you would see outdoors around noon and into the early afternoon. I get about 3-4 UVB directly under it.

Your humidity sounds excellent but humidifiers aren't recommended, especially if it's a cool misting type. They tend to cool the air down and also water droplets in the air aren't the best things for torts to be breathing in. It's better just to dump warm water on the substrate every so often to create humidity.

Your overnight and ambient daytime temps sound perfect. You want to keep overnight temps around 70-72F for hatchlings. I use a CHE on a thermostat but you may not need to if it stays warm enough.

I really like your setup. Your enclosure looks great! The size is fine for now but be aware that you'll need something bigger after about a year or two since your tortoise will need more space. 4' x 8' is recommended for juvenile and older torts.

Hi @MarginatedMooney, thank you so much for the welcome, the feedback, tips and encouragement! Since I wrote the post, I have already replaced the spot bulb with a regular incandescent bulb, and discovered that I won't need the CHE or humidifier (and thank you for the warning re: humidifiers. I had thought to stay away from misting systems for that very reason, but didn't realize it also applied to a humidifier!). I will be investing in a solarmeter 6.5.

It will spend it's 'nursery' days in the reptile room, where it's kept a bit warmer. My plan is to build a 4x8 (minimum) covered pen outdoors in the spring/summer, and when it gets bigger, to have an enclosed 4x8 (minimum) in a room that can get cooler overnight. Still need to noodle on how to best configure those spaces. The ultimate goal is to let it live outdoors in appropriate weather, and then in for the winters.

Thanks again!!

 

[minimoo]

When does your little Hermann’s arrive?

I'm going to be picking it up from the breeder (Gary Bright) on Saturday! ?

 

[Krista S]

Hi all! Trying to get a hatchling enclosure set up properly, and hoping to get some feedback. I've tried to meld both Tom's "Temperate Tortoise" and Chris Leone's hermanni care guides, and would really appreciate your folks' eyes on anything I may have missed/misunderstood/misinterpreted. This will be my first tortoise, so apologies for any egregious errors...

Notes:
1. Orchid bark is en route
2. Plan is for basking lamp (100w basking spot lamp) and LED grow lights to be on 12-14hr timer. Basking spot is at around 90...what is the minimum safe distance between tort and lamp?
3. Plan is for T5HO 10.0 fixture to be on timer for a few hours a day. Is there a best time for a hatchling to cash in on it being on? AM? PM? both??
4. Humidifier will be on humidistat to keep at about 75% "mid-tub" (first night it went up to 86 RH, and seems to be stable at around 73% for today)
5. Not sure CHE is necessary, but not quite sure what is best temp range for a young hatchling. Thermometer/hygrometer is about an inch above substrate, midway between hot/cool sides. Tub stayed at 71 degrees overnight, seems to be staying constant at 82 with the basking lamp on.
6. The cork tube is plugged on both ends, so that the tortoise won't try to go inside/get stuck.
7. I have rocks walling off the back of the hibiscus pot, so the tortoise doesn't try to get back there/get stuck.
8. Tub is 50g stock tank (~2'x4'; has shower curtain to enclose it for heat/humidity)
9. The idea behind placement of hardscape was to not have the entire area feel too open/exposed for a baby tort. Food bowl was going to be in the 'niche,' water bowl closer to the 'humid hide'.
10. Glazed ceramic pot hide on hot side meant to better retain some humidity inside. Temp gun says 80 on the substrate, 85 on top of pot.

I totally feel like a kid before Christmas and truly want to do right by the little nugget ? Thanks in advance!

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View attachment 335469

Your enclosure looks really nice and @MarginatedMooney has given you excellent advice! Good for you for getting everything dialed in before bringing your tortoise home. My only word of caution is to keep a very close eye on the little one for the first few days. There’s a lot of potential tipping hazards in your enclosure and curious baby tortoises are really good at finding trouble! ? Be ready to make changes as your little tortoise shows you problem spots.

It is hard to tell what’s under your basking light. Slate or a similar dark stone is recommended for basking spots because it absorbs heat so well and in turn, is able to help your wee one warm up easier. The pot that you have turned on it’s side I think is intended to be used as a hide. I tried that with my little Hermann’s tortoise but he never felt secure enough to use it. I think it felt too open for him.

With the terracotta saucers, I assume 1 for water. I don’t know how timy your baby will be, but if it looks like its a challenge for baby to get in and out of the saucer safely, you could add some rocks or something into the dish to raise the “floor” up a little. I’ve had to do this with my tortoise. I just collected regular rocks from outside and gave them a good scrubbing.

If you haven’t already seen it, here’s a link to the best care sheet money can buy…only it’s free! It was created by one of the most experienced forum members.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Good luck on Saturday when you get your tortoise. We LOVE pictures, so hopefully you’ll be willing to share some once he/she is all settled in. If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to ask! Oh, and welcome to the forum!! ?

 

[minimoo]

Your enclosure looks really nice and @MarginatedMooney has given you excellent advice! Good for you for getting everything dialed in before bringing your tortoise home. My only word of caution is to keep a very close eye on the little one for the first few days. There’s a lot of potential tipping hazards in your enclosure and curious baby tortoises are really good at finding trouble! ? Be ready to make changes as your little tortoise shows you problem spots.

It is hard to tell what’s under your basking light. Slate or a similar dark stone is recommended for basking spots because it absorbs heat so well and in turn, is able to help your wee one warm up easier. The pot that you have turned on it’s side I think is intended to be used as a hide. I tried that with my little Hermann’s tortoise but he never felt secure enough to use it. I think it felt too open for him.

With the terracotta saucers, I assume 1 for water. I don’t know how timy your baby will be, but if it looks like its a challenge for baby to get in and out of the saucer safely, you could add some rocks or something into the dish to raise the “floor” up a little. I’ve had to do this with my tortoise. I just collected regular rocks from outside and gave them a good scrubbing.

If you haven’t already seen it, here’s a link to the best care sheet money can buy…only it’s free! It was created by one of the most experienced forum members.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Good luck on Saturday when you get your tortoise. We LOVE pictures, so hopefully you’ll be willing to share some once he/she is all settled in. If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to ask! Oh, and welcome to the forum!! ?

Hi @Krista S ! Thank you for the welcome and the feedback as well! I very much plan on watching how the hardscape may be a risk...the flipping hazards are the most difficult aspect (I think) for me to anticipate without having any experience with what they are capable of.

I have "bloody mary" stone accumulated from fish tank and orchid terrarium scaping under the basking lamp and throughout the enclosure. The stone itself measured 100 degrees this evening with a heat gun. Is it still a bad idea/risk to use it?

Noted on the ceramic pot potentially being too open - that makes sense. I have a plethora of other options if this one doesn't suit him/her! Thank you also for the tip on if the saucer may still be too deep.

Will definitely be posting pix when I can - thank you!!

 

[Krista S]

Hi @Krista S ! Thank you for the welcome and the feedback as well! I very much plan on watching how the hardscape may be a risk...the flipping hazards are the most difficult aspect (I think) for me to anticipate without having any experience with what they are capable of.

I have "bloody mary" stone accumulated from fish tank and orchid terrarium scaping under the basking lamp and throughout the enclosure. The stone itself measured 100 degrees this evening with a heat gun. Is it still a bad idea/risk to use it?

Noted on the ceramic pot potentially being too open - that makes sense. I have a plethora of other options if this one doesn't suit him/her! Thank you also for the tip on if the saucer may still be too deep.

Will definitely be posting pix when I can - thank you!!

You're awesome! Not many new owners are as “on their game” as you are. It’s so nice and refreshing to see. I don’t know what Bloody Mary stone is, but as long as it’s not aquarium gravel or stones that could fit in the tortoises mouth, it’ll be just fine to use. If your tortoise is still a tiny hatchling, I would adjust the height of the bulb to get the temp of the stone to be no higher than 95 degrees. Tiny tortoises can lose their hydration so quickly. I am so excited for you and the adventure ahead.

 

[tinytortoise]

Hey there, just seeing this post and wow our baby setups are quite similar!

Just wanted to comment as we're just about to graduate from the 50gal stock tank and Apis the Western Hermann's is 3yr 2 months old.

She's only ever flipped once and it was actually along the edge during her first year. Honestly that one couldn't have been helped, luckily we were home, but also had a wyze camera setup on her so we could see thumbnails on our phones.

Once she's hit 3 y.o. escape has been big on my, and her mind. She hasn't made it out, and luckily her new enclosure just arrived today, but I've had to be extra cautious not to give her anything to climb on near the edges, to have my covers on the edges tight, and weight down my lid - your setup is different but you'll want to consider these things as they rapidly grow years 1-2.

I'd be careful with the logs, they can get stuck places, and also possibly aid in climbing out. Similarly with the planter pots, you'll see your tortoise quickly grow and soon the space might be better used for increase floorspace, bigger food/water dishes, etc.

Hope this helps, and gives you some things to look out for with the stock tank! Love the setup and congrats on your little one!