chinaturtle
New Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2017
- Messages
- 5
Hello all Y'all!
I have recently moved backed to the US after completing a three year postdoc at Peking University in conservation, phyolgenetics, ecology, and market pathways of Chinese turtles. I am starting this thread at the suggestion of another forum member who thought others might be interested in learning more about the situation in China.
I guess I'll begin this thread with a few general observations and everyone can ask more detailed questions as interests/curiosity suits them. I'm in the process of moving back and getting settled in, so I'll do my best to answer any questions in a timely manner and post different experiences as they come to mind.
First, I feel the situation is sometimes sensationalized by some reports and is not really accurate. I feel the truth of what is going on is sensational enough!! While there are large shows or expos for turtles, they really are not that big, other than Shunde and Shanghai expos. These are the expos most foreigners will go to. There are many smaller ones as well. These large expos are impressive, but most of the animals on display are all captive bred or LTC. Not really much different than expos I've been to in the US, except these are specifically for turtles. The dishes served at the expo banquet dinners do sometimes have turtles on the menu, but these are all farm raised. Typically reeve's pond turtles and Chinese softshells. So while it sounds horrible, I really do not see much harm. While we might consider eating a turtle to be offensive because we keep them as pets, it is a different culture in China, and is acceptable.
In my opinion, the truly appalling aspect of the turtle trade in China, is the apathy the government has in enforcement. If the government enforced their own wildlife laws, turtles would be much more abundant in the wilds of China (as would many other species). This unfortunately, is not confined to China. Many SE Asian countries have similar problems.
In China, the most effective conservation method is captive breeding. Most conservation programs have a captive breeding component, which, is usually necessary in China due to depleted wild populations. However, the mentality is captive breeding is the best form of conservation, not in situ forms of conservation which is typically the western train of thought and CB programs are a last resort. This CB first train of thought has several reasons behind it, and was hard to agree with at first, but now I better understand why this occurs. The issue is these CB programs do not have much direction, i.e., how many will be released, what follow up surveys will be done, where will they be released etc. So most are not effective, or never even make it to the release stage of the project. Or worse yet, they release non-native animals into the wild!
One quick comment on poachers. When I landed in China, I had the preconceived notion all poachers are evil. Guess it was just my naive/arrogant western ideals ;p. I found the people poaching the animals in general to be more kind and more helpful than the government workers (not always, I have some good friends who work in govt positions, but in general it is the case). Over the past three years, I have developed good friendships with some of the local people, and they are the ones who led us to remnant populations of G. spengleri, M. mutica and S. bealei. I came to realize these people are not evil, they are just trying to feed, clothe and provide for their family like the rest of us. Also, many poachers are minority people, who have historically lived off the land. Its in their culture to harvest from the wild. Now they have just over done it. They might make 500 USD a month from their crops, a few turtles can match or exceed their income from crops. I can't blame them for doing it. My friends readily tell me, "if we had job opportunities, I'd never go into the mountains to collect". It is hard work and not a steady source of income for most, just an occasional boost. I wish I could say I've influenced some to stop poaching, but I have not. I am glad to see that some are finding jobs and that in some of these villages the local people are spending less time in the mountains. Still a long ways to go, but its a small step in the right direction. Once again, poaching comes down to law enforcement. If laws were enforced, poaching would be minimal. The money to be gained would not be worth the risk, unfortunately, enforcement is severely lacking. Also, the up and coming generation of kids are digitally addicted like most youth in the US. Even though kids are surrounded by mountains, the teenagers do not go into the mountains much. They are on cellular devices too. Also, many are leaving the villages to go to college or find jobs in the cities. I think in the near future poaching will decline simply due to this change in lifestyle. It is good for conservation, but sad for the loss of some of the cultural identity.
Well, Its late and I feel I'm rambling, so I will check back in soon. Everyone have great day!
I have recently moved backed to the US after completing a three year postdoc at Peking University in conservation, phyolgenetics, ecology, and market pathways of Chinese turtles. I am starting this thread at the suggestion of another forum member who thought others might be interested in learning more about the situation in China.
I guess I'll begin this thread with a few general observations and everyone can ask more detailed questions as interests/curiosity suits them. I'm in the process of moving back and getting settled in, so I'll do my best to answer any questions in a timely manner and post different experiences as they come to mind.
First, I feel the situation is sometimes sensationalized by some reports and is not really accurate. I feel the truth of what is going on is sensational enough!! While there are large shows or expos for turtles, they really are not that big, other than Shunde and Shanghai expos. These are the expos most foreigners will go to. There are many smaller ones as well. These large expos are impressive, but most of the animals on display are all captive bred or LTC. Not really much different than expos I've been to in the US, except these are specifically for turtles. The dishes served at the expo banquet dinners do sometimes have turtles on the menu, but these are all farm raised. Typically reeve's pond turtles and Chinese softshells. So while it sounds horrible, I really do not see much harm. While we might consider eating a turtle to be offensive because we keep them as pets, it is a different culture in China, and is acceptable.
In my opinion, the truly appalling aspect of the turtle trade in China, is the apathy the government has in enforcement. If the government enforced their own wildlife laws, turtles would be much more abundant in the wilds of China (as would many other species). This unfortunately, is not confined to China. Many SE Asian countries have similar problems.
In China, the most effective conservation method is captive breeding. Most conservation programs have a captive breeding component, which, is usually necessary in China due to depleted wild populations. However, the mentality is captive breeding is the best form of conservation, not in situ forms of conservation which is typically the western train of thought and CB programs are a last resort. This CB first train of thought has several reasons behind it, and was hard to agree with at first, but now I better understand why this occurs. The issue is these CB programs do not have much direction, i.e., how many will be released, what follow up surveys will be done, where will they be released etc. So most are not effective, or never even make it to the release stage of the project. Or worse yet, they release non-native animals into the wild!
One quick comment on poachers. When I landed in China, I had the preconceived notion all poachers are evil. Guess it was just my naive/arrogant western ideals ;p. I found the people poaching the animals in general to be more kind and more helpful than the government workers (not always, I have some good friends who work in govt positions, but in general it is the case). Over the past three years, I have developed good friendships with some of the local people, and they are the ones who led us to remnant populations of G. spengleri, M. mutica and S. bealei. I came to realize these people are not evil, they are just trying to feed, clothe and provide for their family like the rest of us. Also, many poachers are minority people, who have historically lived off the land. Its in their culture to harvest from the wild. Now they have just over done it. They might make 500 USD a month from their crops, a few turtles can match or exceed their income from crops. I can't blame them for doing it. My friends readily tell me, "if we had job opportunities, I'd never go into the mountains to collect". It is hard work and not a steady source of income for most, just an occasional boost. I wish I could say I've influenced some to stop poaching, but I have not. I am glad to see that some are finding jobs and that in some of these villages the local people are spending less time in the mountains. Still a long ways to go, but its a small step in the right direction. Once again, poaching comes down to law enforcement. If laws were enforced, poaching would be minimal. The money to be gained would not be worth the risk, unfortunately, enforcement is severely lacking. Also, the up and coming generation of kids are digitally addicted like most youth in the US. Even though kids are surrounded by mountains, the teenagers do not go into the mountains much. They are on cellular devices too. Also, many are leaving the villages to go to college or find jobs in the cities. I think in the near future poaching will decline simply due to this change in lifestyle. It is good for conservation, but sad for the loss of some of the cultural identity.
Well, Its late and I feel I'm rambling, so I will check back in soon. Everyone have great day!
