Finding the right tortoise?

[kcartwright856]

Hello, everyone.

I've been lurking for quite some time and figured it was time to go ahead and register. Rather than making an intro post just yet, I was wondering if some folks could help me figure some things out.

I've known that I wanted to add a tortoise to the family at some point in our lives. I'd always figured it would be in the next 5-10 years, which would put us in a new home with a good amount of land, etc. The plan was to not bring a tortoise into the family until it had a nice, big, enclosed area in a safe yard, away from the world. We currently have very little yard space and the yard is not easily accessible from the house. This makes an outdoor enclosure difficult in our current home.

It occurred to me at some point over the past few days that I've been observing an acquaintance's turtle vicariously, that... why not now (and by now I mean a few months so that I can get everything set up)? Well, that's what I am trying to figure out.

As far as supplies, I already have everything that I'd need except for a few minor details. I have the materials for a large indoor enclosure, bedding/litter, materials for hides, sphagnum moss for moist hide if necessary, fresh produce... the only thing I can come up with that I would need are the special lights.

And, the tortoise. This is where I'm stuck. I'd hope for a very long and happy life, which means it has to be the exact correct tortoise for our family.

Size is not an issue to a reasonable extent. The two footers and above are out, but anything else is game. Would not prefer the smallest species, but can obviously make exceptions if a species would match.

Pennsylvania zone, so moderate outdoor summers. Our home is not overly cooled in the summers, and our winter indoor temps are around 65. Hibernation worries me, though our attic is quite chilly in the winters. 50 degrees, perhaps.

Diet. Would prefer to be able to feed the fresh produce from my garden and the things from the market that I don't grow myself. Not interested in feeding pellets. (Supplements are obviously the exception, but I mean the main diet.)

Enclosure is not a concern. I have the materials to build a large one. We have about half of a room that can be devoted to enclosure.

Personality. I'm not going to expect a dog-like personality, but I'd love to have at least some sort of interaction on a daily basis.


It's very late here and I'm sure that I'm leaving things out, but this probably covers enough so that I can get opinions on which tortoise would be a good fit.

Fire away!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi "K":

I'd go with a Russian tortoise. They stay pretty small, are VERY personable, eat greens and hibernate. But best of all, they are pretty forgiving of beginner mistakes.

 

[T33's Torts]

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/showthread.php?tid=80698
I agree with Yvonne 100%. That is the link to Tom's care sheet.

 

[kcartwright856]

Thank you! I'm putting Russian on the list.

How do we feel about Redfoot, Greek, or varieties thereof?

I find Redfoot most attractive from an appearance standpoint, but obviously that means nothing if I can't give it proper care.

What makes Russian best for me (aside from beginner status) and what makes Redfoot/Greek/etc a bad choice?

If you can't tell from my info so far, what other info would be helpful?

It occurred to me this morning that an outdoor enclosure for summer would be possible as our deck is massive, but it would not be in the grass. It would only be another big box-type structure with a lid for predators as we do have birds of prey that hang around. Not sure if that makes a difference! I'd hate for it too be unhappy with use in the winter, though, as it would be too cold to stay outside year-round.

 

[Tom]

This is a tough call. Any species can be kept anywhere in the world with enough time, effort and money thrown at the problem. Sounds like you are trying to narrow it down a bit to make things a bit easier and more manageable. First you must know that all of them are individuals. Most of them will come around and look for some interaction with you, but it may take a while for that to happen.

Produce, either home grown or store bought, is not the best diet by itself for any species. Human salad materials simply do not contain the nutrients or fiber content of the weeds and leaves they should be eating. Think of the pictures you've seen of raw land untouched by humans. There are no lettuce heads growing there. Learn to ID your local weeds and feed them the good ones. There are many places with lists of good "natural" stuff to feed them. There are some pellets that are actually quite good for them, but they can live without them just fine too.

For your area and the given parameters, I would suggest a russian or hermanns tortoise.

 

[Yvonne G]

Those other tortoises aren't necessarily bad choices, its just that Russians are easier to care for and to learn from.

You have to be pretty careful to get a RF's enclosure just right or he may get shell rot.

The different sub species of Greek are a very good choice also.

RF tortoises can be set up in beautiful indoor enclosures similar to this:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-24736.html

So if you are into indoor gardening this would be a good choice for you.

 

[Kathy Coles]

I didn't do as much research as you are doing. Good for you!. I just fell in love with a red foot in the pet store and it was all over but the spending. From my perspective, they are friendly and attractive and won't get too big. I finally solved the humidity problem by buying a reptifogger from Zoo Med. A small humidity machine that works great. I know others have used a small plastic swimming pool on a deck, with holes for drainage, and planted grasses in it. Some red foots are very colorful, esp. the cherry heads.

 

[Tom]

As a very broad generalization, greeks tend to not be as personable as hermanni or russians. This does not mean you can't find an unusually shy russian or a particularly outgoing greek.

RFs would require a large elaborate set up to successfully be maintained as an adult in your climate. It can be done, but it will require a lot more to do it right than some other species that come from different environments in the world.

Russians and hermanni are both hardy, adaptable, easy enough to house indoors over winter, and most of all very personable and unafraid once they are older and acclimated to your household.

 

[DayDreamer]

I'd go with a russian
I was in the same spot as you, I had box turtle and not a greek on my 'list' and ended up going with a russian because they were small, seemed to have the biggest personalities, hardy, and they dont need protein (which for me was a big factor in picking a russian over a redfooted or box turtle... not having to buy pinkie mice, meal worms etc.)

 

[kcartwright856]

Thank you so much for all of the responses! I do not go into anything lightly. It took me a good year from the time I decided I wanted to keep a snake until the time I figured out what species, how I wanted to house, and exactly what the day-to-day plan was. Only a few weeks of that was waiting for my baby to hatch and get established.

Cats, however... I take those in willy-nilly. But, I digress...

As far as the produce goes, I am reading about the weeds and such. I do grow dandelion for greens and for the flowers to turn into wine. I assume that this counts as a weed, or no? Also... for my mischief of rats, I keep all of their greens and other produce in the freezer to bring spoilage down to zero. It also allows me to keep everything in stock when it's out of season. Weeds would be hard for me to source in the winter. Can I freeze them like my other greens? (I'll end up doing separate diet research and possibly another thread if I get stuck once we establish which tortoise.)

I do like indoor gardening and I collect succulents and cacti. Not that that has anything to do with anything, as I obviously wouldn't want to keep my collection in the tortoise's enclosure. My collection is precious and I couldn't have that bugger eating it all away! I did read something about nopales for the diet, which I could obviously grow to source some. (Do Russians do the nopales, or is that another species?)

The eventual tortoise enclosure, if I was to go ahead and add one in our current home, would be in my studio. Since that's where all of my STUFF is, and my plant collection, no other animals are allowed in. This obviously means I'd feel comfortable doing an open-top for the inside enclosure from a safety standpoint, though anything outside would need a cover. Theoretically, if humidity was needed, I could install a humidifier in the room. Maintaining exact humidity makes me a little nervous, and it was definitely a deciding factor when I chose my snake species. It would be no different for a tortoise. Would a Russian need this?

Greeks are probably out if they aren't quite as personable, and the words "shell rot" are enough to scare me away from Redfoot.

What sub-varieties are we looking at for Russians that are available to the pet owner, and do they make a difference?

Thanks for all the help. I really do appreciate it!

 

[leigti]

I have had a Russian tortoise now for a year and a half and I love him. His indoor enclosure is 6' x 2', some say that's a little small but that's all I have room for. His outdoor enclosure is 15' x 10', kind of an L-shaped enclosure. My tortoise is very outgoing and definitely has a personality. Some people think that Russian tortoises aren't as pretty as other species but to me that doesn't matter. My tortoise came to me in pretty bad shape but I wouldn't trade him for the world. He is an adult so I don't have to worry as much about humidity. I buy seeds from tortoise supply or Carolina pet supply and grow them inside for the winter and then plant them in his outdoor enclosure in summer. I have learned from the forum not to get two Russian tortoises, i'm glad I found that out before I made that mistake because I thought my tortoise would want a friend but they don't want friends. At least not tortoise friends happy face it is a personal decision but I vote for the Russian.

 

[FLINTUS]

I would say that while Russians are more outgoing, iberas certainly have more personality than most tortoises.

 

[milkandsam]

I have an ibera Greek from tortoisesupply.com and he is definitely personable! (I've never had a Russian so I can't compare.. nor have I had another Greek so I can't compare that either). My lil Greek will wait for me in his food bowl and come running if he sees me grab his food. Enjoy your tort when you get one!

 

[kcartwright856]

I would say that while Russians are more outgoing, iberas certainly have more personality than most tortoises.

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[FLINTUS]

They are very gentle tortoises for the most part-unlike Russians- but they are very happy to say hello from the ones I've experienced.

 

[kcartwright856]

They are very gentle tortoises for the most part-unlike Russians- but they are very happy to say hello from the ones I've experienced.

Russians aren't gentle? How do you mean? They bite?

 

[FLINTUS]

Russians aren't gentle? How do you mean? They bite?

Russians are very outgoing and generally destructive. They dig a lot and are not communal in any sense of the word unless given lots of space.

 

[kcartwright856]

Russians are very outgoing and generally destructive. They dig a lot and are not communal in any sense of the word unless given lots of space.

I think I see what you mean. I'm not overly worried about being communal, so long as that is what the tortoise wants. Do Greek tortoises need companionship, then?

My plans don't currently allow for more than an inch or two of substrate, though. What is the depth of substrate that a Russian would like, versus a Greek?

 

[FLINTUS]

Very few tortoises would be found together in the wild all the time, if any,-the only exceptions might be some of the forest species-, but Iberas specifically are much more tolerable of each other if you wanted to start a breeding group than other testudo species, as most of the genus are quite hard when you have groups from what I've both observed and heard-I will point out I don't keep either species personally. You will need much more substrate than that. IMO-which may be debated by some- you need at least two foot of soil for Russians, and for Greeks probably close to a foot, maybe half a foot with a big nesting pile instead. This is the problem with keeping Russians indoors, you really need to have them outside.