First Time Leopard Toroise Owner a Little Worried

[Josh2269]

Hello everyone, I have been scouring these forums for the past month and have made an enclosure to meet the general enclosure idea of Tom's and others threads for Leopard tortoises. Now that my baby tortoise has arrived many more questions have arose. If anyone can answer them it would be greatly appreciated. Here is some background information:

The tortoise is 5 weeks old and weighs 33g on 3 November. When he arrived on 31 October he weighed 28g. His weight gain I expect is from water since he was mailed overnight. The tortoise will eat when I put him in front of the food and every once in a while on its own, but it doesn't eat a great volume, maybe 2 small leaves total. The food being fed is organic spring mix, cat grass, succulent leaves, timothy hay, and Zoo med grassland tortoise(3x week for zoo med). There is also an additional calcium + D3 supplement put on the food 3x a week(that's the schedule I will be following). He is given 20 minute warm soaks between 85F-95F daily and has a ceramic plant saucer for all day water. The tortoise has never basked in the light and seems to stay away from it. He will go to the corners of the cage away from the basking zone or inside of a humid hide. In general he seems rather lethargic in terms of activity. He doesn't roam and barely comes out except to eat or drink. His closed enclosure has one corner of heated, UVB B&A from a MVB with a temperature of 100F-105F and a ceramic heater near the center of the enclosure put on a thermostat for 81F in the cool corner. The substrate is coconut, with sections of wet sphagnum. Everything is moist and the relative humidity is 70+ (It's very hard to keep it higher than 80). There are two hides one warm and one cool with moist moss in both. Also, he has been outside once for 20 minutes since I got him due to weather. His shell temp hit 78F and then I brought him in.

Here are my question:

1. Is it normal for baby leopards (babcoki) to be inactive and sleep for 20+ hours a day?
2. Are their shells a little soft at this age? His under belly isn't really soft but it does have some give to it. Kind of like a plastic tupperware container, but I'd say a little harder.
3. Is this species generally alert? It will take him about 20 seconds to open his eyes when woken up, but it does respond quickly to noises or fast motion.
4. What is a healthy shell temperature for the tortoise? The highest I have seen his temp was 93F because he always goes to the cool end of the enclosure. Is that a healthy temperature?

My main concern is his lack of activity and exploring along with a possibly soft shell. I don't want this little guy to be or get sick due to my mistakes. I have tried to get as much information as possible before acquiring this little fella and I want him to live a long and happy life.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Josh, and welcome to the Forum!

Please be sure your baby is warm enough. You brought him in when his shell hit 78F degrees. That's not too warm at all. Think of it this way - YOUR body temp is 98.6F degrees. He's no different. He also needs to have his core temp up towards the 100 degree mark.

1. Baby tortoises don't actually sleep a lot, they hide a lot. Babies are prey and stay out of sight as much as possible.
2. Baby shells are pliable for about the first year.
3. My baby leopards are bright eyed and alert. When they come out of their hide in the a.m. they are raring to go. Your baby might not be warm enough.
4. It would be a good idea to keep your habitat upwards of 80F. It will be hotter on the light end, but don't let it get below 80F on the away-from-the-light end.

Remember: cool/wet= death sentence warm/wet=quite ok

 

[Josh2269]

Thank you, I didn't realize they needed to be kept that warm. I mean I knew warm but 100F I was unaware of. So he may be too cold, if that's the case it will be an easy fix.

I'm very glad to hear that about the shell, I was very worried after reading all the terrible things with soft shells.

He is relatively alert in the mornings for about 20minutes, but afterwards it is a really quick, I'm done for the day and I'm going to sleep or lie down with my eyes closed for most of the day. I wake him up periodically (twice after 3PM) to make sure it eats and drinks enough though.

 

[Josh2269]

Also with the 78F, I didn't realize he dropped that quickly. It was 74F outside, but I've seen plenty of threads say that temp is ok in direct sun, but there was a slight breeze in my case. I will make sure not to have that happen again. What is a good range of temperatures for a tortoises body?

 

[dmmj]

Like yvonne, I suspect he is to cold. warm him up and you will see a different tortoise.

 

[Josh2269]

I'm going to need a different ceramic heater then. This 60 watt isn't cutting it. It's a shame he only wants to rest in the cool end which is about 82F.

 

[Josh2269]

Update,

This little guy is doing alot better since I bought a 150watt ceramic heater and keep the temperature 82+ at all times. He even gained 3g last week. Thank you all, he just needed a few more degrees warmer.

 

[phebe121]

Ya my leopards are inside already under there light is 98 and cool end 85 and there active i hope he is.doing better any pics

 

[Jodie]

Good deal. Glad to hear this.

 

[Josh2269]

I'll get pictures up as soon as I can. Been very busy this week. All I can say is this little guy stresses me out a bit. Not that he is too much work, just I worry about his health and growth. Hasn't gain much weight at all in 2 weeks now. 1-2g only.

 

[Josh2269]

I have a repeat question from above, when you wake up a baby leopard tortoise does it take a while for them to open their eyes at 7 weeks? About 10-15 seconds worth of time. It definitely is not a heat issue since his shell temp is well over 90 most of the time. When he gets woken up to eat, drink, bathe, or bask he will initially have his eyes squinted at about 10 seconds and begin opening from there. He is alert when his eyes are finally open, but will often close them for a few seconds on and off before opening again. He is still eating, drinking, and defecating normally he just always seems to be drowsy most of the time unless eating or bathing. Even then, he may sleep in his food or bath time... Just trying to get a good understanding on this species behavior as a baby to avoid any mistakes along the way. Thank you everyone for you help.

 

[TortMomma]

My baby sulcata does that when I wake him up. Takes a bit. I just assumed that he's nice a warm and sleepy, like any baby.

 

[phebe121]

My leopards are the same i can pick them up wile sleeping and them continue to sleep aswell but ya takes them a few seconds to open there eyes and move there legs a little

 

[Josh2269]

Well glad to hear it is normal. Here are a few pics I took 2 days ago. Substrate was a little dry but didn't get to spray it yet after work. It is really difficult to keep it moist all day without generating mold... already had that problem and had to remove the entire bottom panel. It has a plastic bag as a temperary solution right now.

 

[phebe121]

I poor water on mine i just dont spray so most of it is wet and mine have gotten twice there size in 4 months then when i first got them

 

[Josh2269]

I ended up pouring water on my substrate again. Hoping it doesn't mildew/mold this time again. The little guy still hasn't gain any real weight yet. He weighed in at 33g again which is the same weight I got him at on 31 October. He drinks, eats, defecates, and is active but still no permanent weight gain now. He does hit 35g on and off, but I only log his weight after baths. I'm driving myself crazy with the weight thing. Cute little guy though. Forgot to mention, naming it Turtwig!

 

[Jodie]

I have a leopard that is 10 months old and only weighs 50 grams. I have another that is 7 months and weighs 120 grams. My little guy is not growing either. He eats good an is active. I believe he was started dry, but they all grow at their own rate. As long as he is eating i would refrain from weighing more often than once a month. For my own sanity.

 

[Josh2269]

It is definitely a sanity issue for myself here. I'm a little obsessed with taking care of him, but I want a healthy long life. So your little guy being at 50g at 10 months is normal for a dry started tortoise?? That is very slow even if he was started dry I would imagine. It's crazy how their growth rates differ from each other. Mine will be 8 weeks on the 21st and I was hoping to at least be a few grams more by now. I was told he was started hot and humid so it should be good in that department.

 

[Jodie]

I don't like to try to define normal. My little one, i call him Butters is not normal. He is definitely struggling. What i meant though is as long as they eat, poop n are active, they will grow. He has gained several grams a month since i got him and he is getting spots on his growth line. I was very excited to see those. I didn't read the whole thread, so assume you're feeding a good variety of foods and your temps and humidity are all good. I think if you only weigh once a month you will see steady normal growth.

 

[diamondbp]

Be patient and grateful that it's eating and pooping. I had a hatchling that remained the same size for an entire year. When I first got her she had bumps on her neck and wasn't very active. There was many times I thought she was bound to die but then suddenly things just changed and she began to grow...rapidly! Now she is 1.5lbs and a true beauty.

So keep a close eye but as long as it's warm, eating, and pooping, it should eventually begin a growth spurt.

This was mine in mid November of last year after two months of finally growing and them a picture of her last month. She is even bigger now . Best of luck to you both