First tortoises/yellow-footed tortoises in captivity

Michael231

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My friend and I are currently writing up a report on gigantism in yellow-footed tortoises, and we are finding some very interesting things!

However, we are a little stuck right now, and we think the forum could really help us out. As part of our writeup, we are trying to give an overview of the overall history of the trade of tortoises, specifically yellow-footed tortoises in the United States. We are currently curious about when this trade really started, most books on tortoises don't really go into the first specimens ever imported or the year(s) that they came into captivity. I dug up some old papers about the sulcata trade, and they mention a man by the name of Paquita Machris who was possibly the first to import sulcatas into the United States sometime prior to 1966. However, I am not sure if this is truthful, it seems like there could have been some imports coming in before this specimen.

As for U.S. imports of yellow foots based on past forums it is clear there were numerous specimens coming into the U.S. by the 1970's. However, were there any individuals coming in prior to this decade? Someone posted a photo of two yellow foots awhile back with the caption that they came from someone named Chase in 1971-2. The caption said they were in Miami as well. So clearly they were here by the 70's, but when were the first ones coming in?

Lastly, is there any consensus on the first tortoise species to enter the pet trade in the United States? Surprisingly little info exists on this, and I'm curious what everyone has to say about it.

I attached a photo of whom I presume to be Mrs. Machris with the tortoise she collected. The photo is dated 1967.

Any input concerning any of these questions is greatly appreciated!

yellowfoot.jpg
 

Michael231

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Here are some links to prior forums that discussed yellowfoots;

Forum on gigantism (with mention of 1970's imports in FL):

Forum on gigantism:
 

Kapidolo Farms

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That's a sulcata, it seems I've seen that image in an article from 'the tortoise' regarding sulcata. Maybe originally in an old ITTS or CTTC edition. Those would have been the venue of the time.
 

Toddrickfl1

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@zovick May be able to give you some info
 

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zovick

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That's a sulcata, it seems I've seen that image in an article from 'the tortoise' regarding sulcata. Maybe originally in an old ITTS or CTTC edition. Those would have been the venue of the time.

The tortoise in the photo is most definitely an African Spurred Tortoise. The photo was published in the July-August 1967 issue of the International Turtle and Tortoise Society Journal which showed scenes from the annual IT&TS Show which was held at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, CA. The pictured tortoise was first exhibited there in 1966. I believe it was shown there each year until at least 1972 when I saw it there in a children's playpen. By that time the tortoise took up nearly the entire playpen. It was huge.

In 1971, I acquired 1.1 sulcata which were brought here directly from Africa by one of my friends and I took them to that show in 1972. Other than the two I had and the one in the photo, I never saw any other sulcata at any of those shows, and I believe that the people who owned it never had any others. Believe it or not, sulcata were a great rarity in those days, and those 3 specimens are the only ones of which I am aware were in the US until I eventually acquired two more specimens from Europe in 1973 and ended up with 2.2 adults. By 1977, those four were breeding and producing babies. Those babies were the first CB sulcata produced in the US to the best of my knowledge.

I often wonder how many of today's sulcata could be traced back to my original two pairs. They produced lots of babies and the babies were sold and traded to zoos, dealers, and private people all around the country.

I don't believe there were any other importations in the 1970's other than those 4 specimens which I had. Does anyone have any information on other importations of sulcata tortoises in the 70's, 80's, or 90's? I think the Fife's may have brought some to the US but am not certain of that. If so, it was possibly in the later 90's.
 

zovick

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I alerted you guys to answer the op's yellowfoot question, not the sulcata picture

@Kapidolo Farms @Markw84 @redfootnerd. @zovick

Sorry, Yvonne, I was responding to the remark regarding the pictured sulcata and the apparent desire for information regarding early sulcata imports in the second paragraph of the original post. As I read the post, I thought the history of sulcata imports was also being requested or wanted by the author, so I provided what I know. If it's too much information, I'll keep quiet.
 

Yvonne G

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Sorry, Yvonne, I was responding to the remark regarding the pictured sulcata and the apparent desire for information regarding early sulcata imports in the second paragraph of the original post. As I read the post, I thought the history of sulcata imports was also being requested or wanted by the author, so I provided what I know. If it's too much information, I'll keep quiet.
LOL! Did I sound like I was reprimanding you? Your post was very interesting. If you've got something to say, please feel free to say it!
 

zovick

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My friend and I are currently writing up a report on gigantism in yellow-footed tortoises, and we are finding some very interesting things!

However, we are a little stuck right now, and we think the forum could really help us out. As part of our writeup, we are trying to give an overview of the overall history of the trade of tortoises, specifically yellow-footed tortoises in the United States. We are currently curious about when this trade really started, most books on tortoises don't really go into the first specimens ever imported or the year(s) that they came into captivity. I dug up some old papers about the sulcata trade, and they mention a man by the name of Paquita Machris who was possibly the first to import sulcatas into the United States sometime prior to 1966. However, I am not sure if this is truthful, it seems like there could have been some imports coming in before this specimen.

As for U.S. imports of yellow foots based on past forums it is clear there were numerous specimens coming into the U.S. by the 1970's. However, were there any individuals coming in prior to this decade? Someone posted a photo of two yellow foots awhile back with the caption that they came from someone named Chase in 1971-2. The caption said they were in Miami as well. So clearly they were here by the 70's, but when were the first ones coming in?

Lastly, is there any consensus on the first tortoise species to enter the pet trade in the United States? Surprisingly little info exists on this, and I'm curious what everyone has to say about it.

I attached a photo of whom I presume to be Mrs. Machris with the tortoise she collected. The photo is dated 1967.

Any input concerning any of these questions is greatly appreciated!

View attachment 291766

Regarding early commercial tortoise trade in the US:

I can tell you that I personally bought both Western Hermann's Tortoises and Testudo graeca in the late 1950's and Chelonoidis carbonaria, Indotestudo elongata and Homopus areolatus in the early 1960's from various animal dealers. In the mid-1960's I purchased my first Radiated Tortoises from an importer named Carl Herman in NYC. He is the first person of whom I am aware that brought any Radiated Tortoises here in large numbers.

I personally imported Indian Stars direct from India from 1968-1973 and some of them were sold to animal dealers.

I do not recall any dealers having Yellow foot Tortoises available until later in the 1960's. There was a huge specimen being kept at the Boston Museum of Science (Science Park) in about 1963-64 but I am not aware of its origin or how it came to be kept in the museum. It was very large, I would say it looked as big as many adult sulcata I have seen. It was kept off-exhibit and had free range of the floor in a room about 8' x 10'.
 

Michael231

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@zovick thank you for such a thorough response. It is greatly appreciated!

I read over the Tortoise Magazine where the 1967 photo was featured and a brief history of sulcatas in the U.S. was mentioned. Thank you for expanding upon this history. I live near Pasadena and frequently go to the Rose Bowl. It's cool to now know that some of the first Centrochelys in the U.S. were close to home!

Also very interesting to ponder the question regarding how many captive sulcatas today are direct/indirect descendants of your original four specimens. I'd bet it is a significant amount. You mentioned above that your original four were producing hatchlings by 1977. In the TC article, it says the first reproduction was achieved at the San Antonio Zoo in 1979. Seems like the TC article got this one wrong since you were producing them before they got sent to the SA Zoo.

Thank you for the info on the yellow-footed tortoises as well! The 1963-64 specimen at the Boston Museum of Science is a very interesting record.

Do you have any ideas on where the two large yellow-footed tortoises at the St. Louis Zoo could have come from? I spoke with someone in the herpetology department there last year at the TSA symposium, and they did not seem certain about its origins but thought it could have come from someone that lived nearby the zoo. Do you think the large specimen at the Boston Museum could have made its way to St. Louis?
 

zovick

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@zovick thank you for such a thorough response. It is greatly appreciated!

I read over the Tortoise Magazine where the 1967 photo was featured and a brief history of sulcatas in the U.S. was mentioned. Thank you for expanding upon this history. I live near Pasadena and frequently go to the Rose Bowl. It's cool to now know that some of the first Centrochelys in the U.S. were close to home!

Also very interesting to ponder the question regarding how many captive sulcatas today are direct/indirect descendants of your original four specimens. I'd bet it is a significant amount. You mentioned above that your original four were producing hatchlings by 1977. In the TC article, it says the first reproduction was achieved at the San Antonio Zoo in 1979. Seems like the TC article got this one wrong since you were producing them before they got sent to the SA Zoo.

Thank you for the info on the yellow-footed tortoises as well! The 1963-64 specimen at the Boston Museum of Science is a very interesting record.

Do you have any ideas on where the two large yellow-footed tortoises at the St. Louis Zoo could have come from? I spoke with someone in the herpetology department there last year at the TSA symposium, and they did not seem certain about its origins but thought it could have come from someone that lived nearby the zoo. Do you think the large specimen at the Boston Museum could have made its way to St. Louis?

Regarding the TC article stating that San Antonio Zoo recorded the first reproduction of sulcata, here is the story. I sent my 2.2 sulcata to San Antonio Zoo on breeding loan in April 1977. Some fertile eggs had been laid in CT prior to the adults being shipped to TX, and one of the eggs hatched that summer after the tortoises were sent to TX. That baby did not live over a month, so I did not think it worthy of reporting it. The adults did go on to produce many babies at SAZ beginning in 1979 after becoming acclimated there and the babies were split 50/50 between SAZ and me.

Was Peter Taylor the person from St. Louis with whom you spoke regarding the denticulata? He used to work at the Bronx Zoo before going to St. Louis and becoming Curator there. I seem to recall that he liked large tortoises and that the NYZS had some large denticulata back in the 1970's. It would be a reasonable guess that Peter may have been sent those specimens after he went to St. Louis by John Behler or Bill Holmstrom. I will see if I can confirm this with Bill Holmstrom today and if so, I will post whatever I am able to determine later. Can the people at St. Louis put you in touch with Peter Taylor? If he is still living, he may be able to give you more information.

I don't think the large animal from Boston would have been sent to St. Louis, knowing how that museum operated at the time. It would more likely have been donated to the Franklin Park Zoo or the Stone Zoo in MA or possibly even given away to a museum donor or volunteer. Of course, I could be wrong.
 

zovick

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@Michael231 I dug out some of my old paperwork from the WCS and St. Catherine's Island. There were 1.2 large denticulata which were being held at SCI in the mid-1980's. One female was owned by WCS (then called NYZS), the male by Oklahoma City Zoo, and one female by the Milwaukee County Zoo. I don't know what happened to them as of now, but am waiting to hear back from Bill Holmstrom. Bill was the WCS Herp Collection Manager for many years and may have more info.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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If you want to resolve the history of any animal at any zoo, seek the registrar. They are the animal data base person. It's literally their job to know this kind of thing. If they don't know then you'd have to sort out and reach out to keepers/curators of the time when the animal did arrive at the zoo. Jeff Ettling, the curator at the SLZ told me he had tried to find an answer but could not. When I was there as a visitor, there was a keeper that had many interesting passions, among them, building the largest dominoes fall, he might know, at that time he was the longest term keeper there. That was sometime in the late 1990's.
 

zovick

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@Kapidolo Farms
Hi Will,
Yes, I am quite aware of that, and I thought about contacting Nilda Ferrar, the registrar from WCS, but figured the pandemic lockdown in NYC would prevent her from being able to access her records (if she can even still find them going back to the 70's and 80's). Hence, I emailed Bill Holmstrom, who was the collection manager to see what he can remember.
 

zovick

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@Michael231 I just received this info on the giant denticulata from Bill Holmstrom:

"Re. the denticulata, we did have one very large animal that was found on Long Island and brought to us by Norm Soule. We moved it to St. Catherines early on in our presence there, but it plowed through a fence the first year and disappeared on the island, never to be seen again. I believe that we did have a few smaller individuals there a bit later on, but removed them, and all the other non-Madagascan tortoises when disease issues became an issue. I believe it was intra-nuclear coccidiosis that prompted the cleanup. I don't recall where we sent them.

With respect to the two very large denticulata at St. Louis, they did not come from the Bronx. My recollection is that St. Louis purchased those animals from Louie Porras and that they originated in Suriname. They were huge - as large as the female Aldabra tortoises they were housed with. The last time I was there, and it has been many years now, I think they only had one left. I'm sure you could get all the details you want from Peter Taylor, but I don't know how to get in touch with him anymore. If Jeff Ettling is still at St. Louis, I'm sure he'd be able to fill you in. Hope that helps."

It seems that Peter Taylor and Jeff Ettling (or the St. Louis Zoo registrar) should be able to fill in more of the information on those St. Louis animals for you

Bill Z
 
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