Future New Tortoise Owner

[parisand]

Hello! I live in MN I currently live with my stepparents again and I am not allowed to have a dog or my cats (my friend is housing them for me until I can afford to move as this move was unexpected and unplanned) with me here. as they have a cat and 3 dogs already. My stepfather has turned his garage into his man cave over the last 8 years or so and currently houses 3 fish tanks with fresh water fish ranging from discus to African cichlids. He also has 2 red eyed slider turtles and a large indoor pond/pool area to house his koi in over the winter. I talking him into letting me set up a vivarium out there and getting one tortoise after him and I seeing one on the Animal Planet show Scaled. I've done some research over the last few weeks and think I have decided on a Red Footed Tortoise. They seem to be beginner friendly in the feeding and enclosure criteria. Do you recommend a red footed as a good beginner tortoise or would you recommend another kind? Plus what kind of substrate do you use in your enclosure? Do you use different layers of different substrates, only one substrate? How do you heat your enclosure, with a lamp or a pad? I've read that some people use one or the other for different reasons. I plan on getting a hatchling and the current size I will be using to house him/her in will be an old glass hand made fish thank that is 2.5 ft x 2.5 ft and the walls are about 1-1.5 ft high. my dad used it for baby fish a few years back but has had no need for it sense. I want to have an outdoor enclosure next summer as well since fall is just arriving I know I wont get any time to put anything up or use it until next year. So I'm hoping that with 6 ish months to plan I should be able to come up with something decent Any other beginner advice you can give would be greatly appreciated! I look forward to getting to know this group and all the wisdom you can offer and provide.

 

[Minority2]

Red foot care sheet taken from http://tortoiselibrary.com/species-information-2/chelonoidis/

South American forest tortoises (Chelonoidis)

General
Chelonoidis means ‘son of the turtle’, or ‘like the turtle’. There are actually several other members of the genus, but this article focuses on the omnivorous or forest species. The others are several species and/or sub-species of Galapagos tortoises (C. nigra), the Chaco (C. chilensis) and Peter’s tortoise (C. petersi, which many consider a sub-species or just a form of C. chilensis).
The two forest forms are readily taken as meat, and there is significant loss of habitat and over-collection for the pet trade, but thankfully the range is large enough and the species are prolific enough that it is not thought to be in any danger at the moment. One thing in its favor is that local ‘tortoise farms’ can provide enough semi-captive-hatched babies for the pet trade and take that pressure off the local populations.
They do not brumate*, but may aestivate in hot or dry weather, especially south of the Amazon basin. See the section on Red-footed Natural History for more on these species. (Paull, 1997, feels that the southernmost groups may brumate in cold seasons, at least for a while.)
The entire list of species and sub-species include (Forest/omnivorous species underlined):

• Genus: Chelonoidis(or Geochelone)
  – South American Tortoises (Fitzinger, 1835)
  • 
    C. carbonaria,
    Red-Footed Tortoise (Spix, 1824) S. America, 14in/36cm, forest
    • 
      May have up
      to 5 sub-species or
      species- such as Northern, Northeastern, Northwestern, Southern and
      Eastern
  • 
    C. chilensis,
    Pampas or Chilean Tortoise (Gray, 1870) S. America, 10in/26cm, grassland
    • Care articles at Anapsid.com- Care and Maintenance, and Chaco Tortoises
  • 
    C. denticulata,
    Yellow-Footed Tortoise (Linnaeus, 1766) S. America, 16in/40cm, forest
  • 
    C. nigra,
    Galápagos Giant Tortoise complex (Quoy & Gaimard, 1824) S.
    America, 48in/122cm, grassland, endangered unless
    otherwise noted. Exact status of species or sub-species is debatable.
    
    • C. n. nigra,
      Charles Island Giant Tortoise, possibly extinct
    • 
      C. abingdonii.
      Abingdon Island Giant Tortoise (Gunther, 1877) considered extinct as of 6-24-2012
      
    • 
      C. becki, Vulcan
      Wolf Giant Tortoise (Rothschild 1901)
    • 
      C. chathamensis,
      Chatham Island Giant Tortoise (Van Denburgh, 1907)
    • 
      C. darwini, James
      Island Giant Tortoise (Van Denburgh, 1907)
    • C. duncanensis,
      Duncan Island Giant Tortoise (Garman in Pritchard, 1996), critically endangered
    • 
      C. hoodensis, Hood
      Island Giant Tortoise (Van Denburgh, 1907) critically endangered
    • C. phantastica,
      Narborough Island Giant Tortoise (Van Denborough, 1907), probably extinct
    • 
      C. porter,
      Indefatigable Island Giant Tortoise (Rothschild, 1903)
    • 
      C. vincina, Isabela
      Island Giant Tortoise (Gunther, 1875)
  • C. petersi, Peter’s Tortoise (Freiberg, 1973), S. America, 10in/36cm, grassland. Not considered a species by all sources. (Care is similar to Chaco tortoises, above)

Red-footed tortoise (Chelonoidis carbonaria)
Also
called ‘red-foot’, red-legged’, ‘savanna tortoise’, etc. Several
distinctive regional variations that may be separate subspecies or even
true species. Especially brightly colored animals from southeastern
Brazil are often called ‘cherry-heads’.
Yellow-footed tortoise (Chelonoidis denticulata)
Also
called ‘yellow-foot’, yellow-legged’, ‘forest tortoise’, or the South
American or Brazilian ‘giant tortoise’. Local names are generally similar
to the red-footed tortoise.

Description
Red-footed
Grows
to 12-14 inches long in about ten years. Mostly dark carapace with light
patches. Dark head and limbs with colorful scales ranging from brilliant
red to pale yellow. Shows lots of individual and regional variation.

Yellow-footed
Grows
to 14″ to 20+ inches in about ten years. Mostly brown to dark coffee carapace
with light patches. Dark head and limbs with scales in some shade of
yellow to yellow-orange.The growth rings on the scutes are generally smoother than the red-footed. The plastron is dark with paler centers to the scutes.
For more on telling these apart, go to ‘Natural History’ or this article at Chelonia.org

Range and habitat
Red-footed
Most
of northern half of South America. Panama and Colombia to French Guiana, down to Paraguay and Bolivia. Typical habitats include grasslands,
open forests, and rain forests (although they are usually found on
forest edges or openings there).
Yellow-footed
South America Amazon River drainage basin, Venezuela to French Guiana to Brazil and Bolivia. Most often found in full rain forest habitat, they can also be found in wet savannah and other areas with water and humidity. In parts of their range they retreat to higher ground as the seasonal floods come in.

There are many areas where red- and yellow-footed ranges overlap, but they are rarely found in the same micro-habitats in those areas- yellow-footeds preferring the wetter, shadier areas and red-footeds taking the somewhat drier areas usually on the edges or openings. It is generally assumed that the red-footed is more adaptable since it is found in the wider variety of locations and the yellow-foot has a much more restricted selection. Both species are strong swimmers, with yellow-footeds often found soaking in water.

Range map

Reproduction
Mating season usually starts
just before the rainy season (March to June) but varies regionally. It
is unclear if yellow-footeds have a distinct season or not. Red- and
yellow-footeds court by sniffing the cloacal region and doing
species-specific head movements- up and down bobbing for red-footeds
(although they do not always bother) and side to side movements for
yellow-foots. A willing female responds with similar motions and female
yellow-footeds also release a strong scent. Similar motions are also
used to determine dominance between males. Head and leg coloration plays
an important role in how the red-footeds select a mate. Ramming,
chasing, and biting are also often involved, especially with the rather
aggressive yellow-foots and Eastern red-foots. Both species vocalize
with red-foots clucking like a chicken.
Northern
red-foots will lay 5-15 elongated eggs about 2 inches long from July to
September, and often have a second o even third clutch later in the
year. Southern and eastern red-footeds do not seem to follow as strict
of a schedule. Red-footeds usually dig a hole to lay the eggs in- not
always an easy job in packed soil. Like many other species, they urinate
to help soften the soil while digging. Yellow-footeds most often use
piles of leaf litter, but sometimes dig, use half digging and half
litter, or just leave the eggs on the surface. A typical yellow-foot
clutch is 3-10 eggs that are more spherical and a bit larger than
red-footed.
For more information, see the articles on nesting and incubation and neonatal care.

Indoor housing
Aim
for as much space as possible. 20 gallon tanks or tubs are the minimum
for very young tortoises. 40 gallon tubs or tanks are OK for up to about
6″ long. 8’x4′ is suggested minimum for adults. Habitat should be
waterproof and secure. Hides and shelters are necessary. Live, ‘baby
safe’ plants are helpful but may be eaten or knocked over. Some simple
substrates are cypress or other hardwood mulch, or ‘Orchid Bark’
(high-grade Douglas fir bark). (Indoor Housing)
Outdoor housing
Outdoor pens
should be spacious, secure from escapes and predators (or theft), and
well-planted with things they can eat and plants they can hide
under. Fresh water and hides are also needed. If nights are below 60-
65F, there should be a heated shelter. If the days are hot and/or
dry, there should be a misting or sprinkler system available. (Outdoor Housing)
Environment
Warm, humid climate with plenty of shade. Yellow-footeds generally are less tolerant of hot or cold, need higher humidity overall, and tend to not like much light.

• 80-85F preferred range. Can tolerate 65-70F lows short term and does not do well over about 90F. red-footeds are more tolerant of a wider range of temps than yellows. (Heating)
• Needs
  high humidity (80-100%) when young red-footeds can tolerate less humidity as they get older but yellows need it all the time. (Humidity)
• Gentle lighting with low-levels of UVB lighting are
  recommended. (Tortoises with regular access to unfiltered sunlight do
  not need UVB lighting.) (Lighting)

Water
A wide, shallow, easy-to-clean bowl of fresh water should always be provided. The bowl rim should be level with the substrate.
Diet
Mostly
greens and plant matter, some vegetables and fruits, small amounts of
protein. Prepared tortoise chows may be used instead or along with fresh
foods. (Diet Overview, Omnivorous Diet)

• Plant materials can be most lettuces, greens,
  flowers, mushrooms, hays, grasses, leaves or flowers of edible plants
  such as hibiscus, and leaves of fruit trees such as mulberry. Avoid
  using only a few items over and over, especially things like spinach,
  cabbage, and Iceberg lettuces.
• Vegetables and fruits can
  include shredded carrot, squash, pumpkin, bell pepper, apples,
  kiwifruit, etc. Some very good options are figs and papaya. Keep
  bananas, grapes, and citrus to a minimum. This should only be about 20%
  of the diet or so.
• Meats should be about 10% or less of the
  diet. Live bugs and worms, snails and slugs, lightly cooked eggs,
  chicken, ‘oily fish’ (salmon, mackerel, etc.), dog or cat food and so
  on.

Feed daily. Remove food when it goes bad. One way to help prevent overfeeding is to limit the higher calorie foods (such as fruits and meats) to an amount smaller than the tortoise’s head.
Other

• These are attractive, personable, and hardy species that generally do well with decent care.
• In
  general, a smooth shell is a good sign of health, while a bumpy shell
  often indicates some skeletal development issues, probably caused by
  care or diet issues.
• When choosing a red-footed tortoise- look
  for a smooth shell; dry nose; clear, wet eyes with no signs of tears or
  being sunken; an animal that you know eats well; and one that struggles
  forcibly when picked up. Baby tortoise’s should have a healed-over yolk
  sack scar.

Resources

• Red-footeds on Reptile Database, Wikipedia
• Yellow-footeds on Reptile Database, Wikipedia
• Bonin, Franck and Bernard Deavaux, Alain Dupre, Peter C. H. Pritchard, Peter C. H. (translator). Turtles of the World
  
  . Johns Hopkins University Press, 2006. ISBN
  0801884969.
• Franklin, Carl J. Turtles: An Extraordinary Natural History 245 Million Years in the Making
  
  
  Voyaguer Press, 2007. ISBN 0760329818.
• Paull, Richard C. The Great Red-Foot Tortoise (Tortoises of the World, Vol. 4)
  
  . Green Nature Books, 1999.ISBN 188808927X.
• Pingleton, Mike. The Redfoot Manual: A Beginner’s Guide To The Redfoot Tortoise
  
  
  . Art Gecko Press, 2009. ISBN 1441494030.
• Pritchard, Dr. Peter C. H.and Pedro Trebbau. Turtles of Venezuela (Contributions to herpetology)
  
  
  . Society for the Study of Amphibians and Reptiles, 1984. ISBN 0916984117
• Vinke, Thomas, Sabine Vinke, Holger Vetter and Susane Vetter. South American Tortoises, ‘Chelonoidis Carbonaria, C. Denticulata and C. Chilensis’ (Chelonian Library #3)
  
  
  , Chelonian Library Vol. 3. Chimera Edition, 2008. ISBN 3899736036.

Revised 5-29-2012 (C) Mark Adkins

 

[parisand]

@Minority2 Thanks I have already read that before coming here I was just looking for any more personal info or experiences anyone could offer.

 

[Minority2]

Hello! I live in MN I currently live with my stepparents again and I am not allowed to have a dog or my cats (my friend is housing them for me until I can afford to move as this move was unexpected and unplanned) with me here. as they have a cat and 3 dogs already. My stepfather has turned his garage into his man cave over the last 8 years or so and currently houses 3 fish tanks with fresh water fish ranging from discus to African cichlids. He also has 2 red eyed slider turtles and a large indoor pond/pool area to house his koi in over the winter. I talking him into letting me set up a vivarium out there and getting one tortoise after him and I seeing one on the Animal Planet show Scaled. I've done some research over the last few weeks and think I have decided on a Red Footed Tortoise. They seem to be beginner friendly in the feeding and enclosure criteria. Do you recommend a red footed as a good beginner tortoise or would you recommend another kind? Plus what kind of substrate do you use in your enclosure? Do you use different layers of different substrates, only one substrate? How do you heat your enclosure, with a lamp or a pad? I've read that some people use one or the other for different reasons. I plan on getting a hatchling and the current size I will be using to house him/her in will be an old glass hand made fish thank that is 2.5 ft x 2.5 ft and the walls are about 1-1.5 ft high. my dad used it for baby fish a few years back but has had no need for it sense. I want to have an outdoor enclosure next summer as well since fall is just arriving I know I wont get any time to put anything up or use it until next year. So I'm hoping that with 6 ish months to plan I should be able to come up with something decent Any other beginner advice you can give would be greatly appreciated! I look forward to getting to know this group and all the wisdom you can offer and provide.

Red foot tortoises are considered a medium sized species of tortoise. Any indoor and outdoor enclosure would require high humidity levels. They have a broader range of food groups. Temperatures are somewhat easier to adjust to for indoor enclosures but future outdoor enclosures for Adult Red foots would require far more effort if an owner lives in a drier environment than one these tortoises are used to.

Coco coir and fine grade orchid/fir bark are two highly recommended substrate choices. You can one one or both.

Basking lamps are usually optional for Red foots. I've used them in the past but have since switched to reptile heating panels. Ceramic heat emitters are also a good option for Red foots.

The 2.5 x 2.5 ft tank you currently have is in my opinion small but would be okay to temporarily house a hatchling. Bigger is always better. Tortoises need a lot of room to pace around in.

What is the typical weather, temperature, and humidity level of where you're currently located? Your outdoor enclosure may require a misting system as well as night time heating depending on what the highs and lows are.

 

[parisand]

Red foot tortoises are considered a medium sized species of tortoise. Any indoor and outdoor enclosure would require high humidity levels. They have a broader range of food groups. Temperatures are somewhat easier to adjust to for indoor enclosures but future outdoor enclosures for Adult Red foots would require far more effort if an owner lives in a drier environment than one these tortoises are used to.

Coco coir and fine grade orchid/fir bark are two highly recommended substrate choices. You can one one or both.

Basking lamps are usually optional for Red foots. I've used them in the past but have since switched to reptile heating panels. Ceramic heat emitters are also a good option for Red foots.

The 2.5 x 2.5 ft tank you currently have is in my opinion small but would be okay to temporarily house a hatchling. Bigger is always better. Tortoises need a lot of room to pace around in.

What is the typical weather, temperature, and humidity level of where you're currently located? Your outdoor enclosure may require a misting system as well as night time heating depending on what the highs and lows are.

@Minority2 The 2.5x2.5 tank is only for now until next year when I can build a bigger indoor one for sure. Still uncertain about a permanent outdoor one. the weather is wide ranging around the year here. Winter can get down to -32 degrees fahrenheit during the day not including wind-chill, and just yesterday it was a high of 87 degrees Fahrenheit with a humidity in the low 80 percentile. Summer can get very hot and humid for a few weeks at a time but mostly Summers are warm (70-85) and not much humidity (10-30%). I figured an outdoor would require misting and the tortoise would only be out there during the daytime and be indoors at night as sometimes the temp drops drastically with no notice...

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

I think a RF tortoise is a great little tortoise to start out with. Figure out some way to be able to cover the tank, though. RF tortoises need warm humid air in order to grow smooth shells. So make up a light stand to hang the lights, then cover the whole thing with sheet plastic. It would be even better to get a large plastic tote with a lid, cut out holes for the lights and use the plastic tote instead of the tank. Much easier to work with the lid instead of trying to figure out how to cover the tank. You can look through our enclosure section for "closed chamber" to get some ideas.

 

[Minority2]

@Minority2 The 2.5x2.5 tank is only for now until next year when I can build a bigger indoor one for sure. Still uncertain about a permanent outdoor one. the weather is wide ranging around the year here. Winter can get down to -32 degrees fahrenheit during the day not including wind-chill, and just yesterday it was a high of 87 degrees Fahrenheit with a humidity in the low 80 percentile. Summer can get very hot and humid for a few weeks at a time but mostly Summers are warm (70-85) and not much humidity (10-30%). I figured an outdoor would require misting and the tortoise would only be out there during the daytime and be indoors at night as sometimes the temp drops drastically with no notice...

Your winters are way too cold. Red foots do not hibernate. If you're planning to get a Red foot you'll need at least an 6-8 x 3-4 ft indoor enclosure in the future to temporarily house a single adult during the winter months.

You'll also need a misting machine for the summer to keep humidity levels high. Additional shade may be required if outdoor temperatures reach over 95-100F+. You'll need access to thermometer and hygrometer readers to monitor your outdoor enclosure. Young tortoises should not be left outside for too long, especially not in an environment with sudden rises and drops in temperature levels.

A smaller species of tortoise that is permanent housed indoors is definitely going to be more beginner friendly. Keep researching and asking questions. Don't make impulsive purchases. Make sure your enclosure is entirely set up (Lights/Temp/Humidity) before buying a tortoise.

 

[parisand]

Your winters are way too cold. Red foots do not hibernate. If you're planning to get a Red foot you'll need at least an 6-8 x 3-4 ft indoor enclosure in the future to temporarily house a single adult during the winter months.

You'll also need a misting machine for the summer to keep humidity levels high. Additional shade may be required if outdoor temperatures reach over 95-100F+. You'll need access to thermometer and hygrometer readers to monitor your outdoor enclosure. Young tortoises should not be left outside for too long, especially not in an environment with sudden rises and drops in temperature levels.

A smaller species of tortoise that is permanent housed indoors is definitely going to be more beginner friendly. Keep researching and asking questions. Don't make impulsive purchases. Make sure your enclosure is entirely set up (Lights/Temp/Humidity) before buying a tortoise.

@minority2 I know my winters are way to cold. I dont plan on keeping it outside during those months as I realized from research they do not hibernate. Our garage since being turned into a living space is kept at 70-80 degrees year round. I do plan on building a bigger enclosure inside this summer when I can build it outside as we have no where inside to build one in winter. I already have a inferred thermometer and plan on getting something to also check the moisture indoors. In the summer the tortoise would only be out doors during the day as even with some sort of protection on the top it wouldn't be enough to stop the bears we have around here. I also plan on getting something that will will help me monitor the temp and make sure whate ever misting I set up outside is keeping the humidity at the correct levels. I am not going to make an impulsive purchase that is why I came here to ask questions my small enclosure I mentioned would only be for 6-8 months at most before getting something bigger. Thank you for all the information! I will definitely keep researching and making sure I have everything set up before a purchase a tortoise no matter what species I end up deciding on [emoji3]

 

[parisand]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum!

I think a RF tortoise is a great little tortoise to start out with. Figure out some way to be able to cover the tank, though. RF tortoises need warm humid air in order to grow smooth shells. So make up a light stand to hang the lights, then cover the whole thing with sheet plastic. It would be even better to get a large plastic tote with a lid, cut out holes for the lights and use the plastic tote instead of the tank. Much easier to work with the lid instead of trying to figure out how to cover the tank. You can look through our enclosure section for "closed chamber" to get some ideas.

@Yvonne thanks I have looked some at the closed chamber section but do plan to look more to get a better idea before getting a tortoise!

 

[parisand]

@minority2 I know my winters are way to cold. I dont plan on keeping it outside during those months as I realized from research they do not hibernate. Our garage since being turned into a living space is kept at 70-80 degrees year round. I do plan on building a bigger enclosure inside this summer when I can build it outside as we have no where inside to build one in winter. I already have a inferred thermometer and plan on getting something to also check the moisture indoors. In the summer the tortoise would only be out doors during the day as even with some sort of protection on the top it wouldn't be enough to stop the bears we have around here. I also plan on getting something that will will help me monitor the temp and make sure whate ever misting I set up outside is keeping the humidity at the correct levels. I am not going to make an impulsive purchase that is why I came here to ask questions my small enclosure I mentioned would only be for 6-8 months at most before getting something bigger. Thank you for all the information! I will definitely keep researching and making sure I have everything set up before a purchase a tortoise no matter what species I end up deciding on [emoji3]

@minority2 you will be happy to know I have since decided not to get a tortoise and go with another reptile species all together. Thank you for all the info and suggestions, I would rather go with a different animal than be a bad owner to a tortoise. [emoji3]

 

[Tim Carlisle]

@minority2 you will be happy to know I have since decided not to get a tortoise and go with another reptile species all together. Thank you for all the info and suggestions, I would rather go with a different animal than be a bad owner to a tortoise. [emoji3]

It takes a certain amount of intellect to admit that. I wish you the best of luck in finding a companion!

 

[parisand]

It takes a certain amount of intellect to admit that. I wish you the best of luck in finding a companion!

@mizcreant thank you... I think. Like i said i wasnt going to make an impulsive buy and that's why I came here with my questions first! Q[emoji4] [emoji2] [emoji217]

 

[Tim Carlisle]

@mizcreant thank you... I think. Like i said i wasnt going to make an impulsive buy and that's why I came here with my questions first! Q[emoji4] [emoji2] [emoji217]

I wasn't trying to be snarky with you at all, and apologize if it appeared to come across that way. I am very glad you are doing your research, and only wish more would follow your footsteps... with tortoises or ANY animal for that matter.

 

[parisand]

I wasn't trying to be snarky with you at all, and apologize if it appeared to come across that way. I am very glad you are doing your research, and only wish more would follow your footsteps... with tortoises or ANY animal for that matter.

@miszcreant I didn't take it snarky at all! I just work overnights and just woke up so my brain is still a little foggy and muddled. [emoji42] and I agree most people leap before they look. An animal is a life long (for the animal in most cases) decision. I have only had to give up two of my pets in my lifetime and that was only because of dire life situations that couldn't be changed or overcome and I wanted what was best for my animals. I don't ever want to have to do that again. Thanks to this forum I shouldn't have to now since I now know I cant accommodate a tortoise to live a full and happy life in my care .